Immersion

[jwhitehorn]

Of course I would, what with mathematically dishonest arguments

Pot = 16.66%
Humus = 16.66%
Water = 16.66%
Sapling = 50%

Average outcome weighted appropriately. Also there is a RANDOM() function applied that is strongly believed to be weighted harder and harder towards a negative outcome as you exceed a 35+ outcome with a theoretical max around the 50ish Alchemical point. Mathematically this is due to RANDOM() adding to all (4) alchemical scores then dividing by their sum (over 100) to balance them back. This is what prevents alchemy equipment from being able to influence an element over 100% but unexpectedly it also makes it so that the higher an alchemical property is out of the balance the larger the negative the Random() takes from it. This is easily seen the case when you place 90% humus with 90% seeds and get a 75% outcome almost everytime.

Once again, your ignorance and lack of game testing does not make formulas you don't understand invalid or dishonest.


Chief PeePooKaka
MM Tribe

[Potjeh]

Yeah, sure, it's 1/6 because sapling is a constant too

You've been to high school, you know how series limits work.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

Yeah, sure, it's 1/6 because sapling is a constant too

You've been to high school, you know how series limits work.

The context of that statement, which seems to have escaped you entirely, is that the implementation of purity wells and/or purity refinement techniques will raise the maximum achievable tree purity well beyond what is possible right now with just humus (especially since water makes up more than 1/6 the purity equation, assuming you make the clay for your gardening pot out of water in a clay trough). Yes, the humus affects the sapling growth which will have an affect on the continued growth as the last sapling is used for the next cycle - but this will remain the case with water, and gardening pots made from water-clay. Furthermore, while legacy humus is a finite resource, water will likely be infinite (or at least renewable). You can only plant so many cycles with the legacy humus, but can cycle with improved water indefinitely.

My initial response when reading your post was "he knows better than that, he's just trolling because he knows he's losing this argument hard." However, on further reflection I'm wondering if you're really arrogant enough not to realize when you're too ignorant of a subject to be opining on it in detail. You've also recently made completely incorrect statements about the usefulness of PvP artifices and their utilization by raiders:

Copper buttons, for example, don't look bad on paper, but in reality nobody uses them because they don't give piercing damage.

And in the past have pontificated about structural damage without even bothering to read the Salem Wiki page on how the formula works, to much embarrassment:

I want a lower entry bar for being able to destroy without it snowballing into ridiculously fast destruction at high humours.

Maybe a solution would be to determine the damage done to a structure by taking the square root of (the raider's phlegm divided by 10), and then multiplying the result by 10? That way each additional point of phlegm would be less useful than the last (even though it takes more to obtain). The damage done would then grow something like:



With the y-axis representing the damage done the the x-axis the raider's phlegm.

I don't think anyone would be able to call that "snowballing" without coming across as quite silly!

That graph looks fairly reasonable.

I have great news for you! That's how it works now!

http://salemwiki.info/index.php/Damage#Structure_Damage

A better man would have been humbled by now by this pattern of being habitually wrong, and made sure he had a better grasp of what it was he was talking about before running his mouth. Alas... not the case here. This, along with your fondness for substituting emoticons for well-reason arguments, and an astoundingly unfounded belief in your inherent superiority, are unfavorable traits you share with Claeyt.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

A better man would have been humbled by now by this pattern of being habitually wrong, and made sure he had a better grasp of what it was he was talking about before running his mouth. Alas... not the case here. This, along with your fondness for substituting emoticons for well-reason arguments, and an astoundingly unfounded belief in your inherent superiority, are unfavorable traits you share with Claeyt.

I haven't been arguing the math at all. I'm arguing that the legacy hummus, crops, seeds, game mechanics and the characters that benefited from those, as they are have probably made the game unfair to newer players. As a player with a lot of legacy hummus in relation to the rest of the players I figured that this would mean some legitimacy to my argument. In the last few pages alone both you and the chief have admitted that a wipe once they fixed the mechanics and other aspects to the gluttony, hummus and farming system would probably be appropriate or at least acceptable. The farming mechanics and bin nerf were where this game went off the rails. To get it back they probably have to fix them. If that means a wipe, then fine. If that means a restart, then fine. If that means wiping hummus and purity crops and seeds, then fine. Honestly I hope they can do it without a wipe or restart. I just see the population fading right alongside of the game's chances at long term success.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

...In the last few pages alone both you and the chief have admitted that a wipe once they fixed the mechanics and other aspects to the gluttony, hummus and farming system would probably be appropriate or at least acceptable...

More accurately, what we've said is that an evaluation of whether a wipe is necessary should be made once the mechanics are fixed. The key point I'm trying to get across if that the fixes could very well render the advantage gained by possessing legacy humus negligible. For example:
-The fix could simply be to restore the mechanics to the pre-nerf state
-The fix could include an implementation of purity refinement, which makes high-purity humus achievable again (although likely with a bit more effort)
-The fix could include purity wells, which would mitigate much (admittedly, not all) of the advantage of having high-purity humus
-The fix could be a reworking of the farming system such that purity humus plays no role (new mechanics for purity), or a lesser role (perhaps purity influenced by fertilizers added rather than humus prepared - in this case, legacy humus used to make high purity crops would be consumed very quickly)

If any of the above changes were what was implemented, a wipe would've erased the humus without good cause. Now, if the new mechanic fixes do not mitigate the advantages of legacy humus, then I'd be more inclined to debate the merits of a wipe - although I'm still of the opinion that the advantages the humus-possessors have can be overcome with a bit of grit and determination.

At this point, calling for a wipe before the mechanics issue has been addressed and claiming it's for "the good of the game" is disingenuous. You fellows are using this tactic to try and reset the political landscape of the servers, and attempting to mask it as something else. The amount of accomplishment that you, or Potjeh for example, are sacrificing is quite minor indeed to the amount of accomplishment that you are trying to have wiped out from the dominant factions (as a side-note, this fits precisely with your political views that I should (continue to) pay high tax rates to fund overcompensation for public workers, like yourself - you act like you're acting out of altruism, when really it's purely self-serving). If you want to press for a wipe on political grounds, at least have the integrity and personal courage to argue for it openly and honestly.

Circling back around to the comment about "running your mouth," I was speaking more generally, not just on this subject (your HoB postings where you state "facts" about Tribal actions or political machinations are almost always completely unfounded - I don't know if you're just making it all up, or believing ***** someone is feeding you). Also, you owe me 500 silver for that bounty, and another 100 silver in late fees.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

Good evening,

...In the last few pages alone both you and the chief have admitted that a wipe once they fixed the mechanics and other aspects to the gluttony, hummus and farming system would probably be appropriate or at least acceptable...

More accurately, what we've said is that an evaluation of whether a wipe is necessary should be made once the mechanics are fixed. The key point I'm trying to get across if that the fixes could very well render the advantage gained by possessing legacy humus negligible. For example:
-The fix could simply be to restore the mechanics to the pre-nerf state
-The fix could include an implementation of purity refinement, which makes high-purity humus achievable again (although likely with a bit more effort)
-The fix could include purity wells, which would mitigate much (admittedly, not all) of the advantage of having high-purity humus
-The fix could be a reworking of the farming system such that purity humus plays no role (new mechanics for purity), or a lesser role (perhaps purity influenced by fertilizers added rather than humus prepared - in this case, legacy humus used to make high purity crops would be consumed very quickly)

If any of the above changes were what was implemented, a wipe would've erased the humus without good cause. Now, if the new mechanic fixes do not mitigate the advantages of legacy humus, then I'd be more inclined to debate the merits of a wipe - although I'm still of the opinion that the advantages the humus-possessors have can be overcome with a bit of grit and determination.

At this point, calling for a wipe before the mechanics issue has been addressed and claiming it's for "the good of the game" is disingenuous. You fellows are using this tactic to try and reset the political landscape of the servers, and attempting to mask it as something else. The amount of accomplishment that you, or Potjeh for example, are sacrificing is quite minor indeed to the amount of accomplishment that you are trying to have wiped out from the dominant factions

That we're even talking about how legacy hummus has determined the political landscape of this game is a reason to call for a wipe. It was too powerful when left in and it's solidified the landscape. We've all put in effort and had our accomplishments. Potjeh and I hermited and that's limited us for sure. That doesn't mean we can't have an opinion about it or that we haven't put in similar effort. Binks, Sab, Colesie, Dallane and other top players have also called for a wipe. Yes I'd like to see them fix the mechanics, but is that going to happen? Nobody knows, not even the dev's apparently.

(as a side-note, this fits precisely with your political views that I should (continue to) pay high tax rates to fund overcompensation for public workers, like yourself - you act like you're acting out of altruism, when really it's purely self-serving). If you want to press for a wipe on political grounds, at least have the integrity and personal courage to argue for it openly and honestly.

Circling back around to the comment about "running your mouth," I was speaking more generally, not just on this subject (your HoB postings where you state "facts" about Tribal actions or political machinations are almost always completely unfounded - I don't know if you're just making it all up, or believing ***** someone is feeding you). Also, you owe me 500 silver for that bounty, and another 100 silver in late fees.

I'm not a public worker. I taught years ago, but now I work in the private sector.

I have no idea what your talking about here. I'm not calling for a wipe for political grounds. I'm calling for it for the good of the game. Tiered food didn't solve the problem. Proficiency leveling didn't solve the problem, although both of those helped. Something's wrong with the game, and I think a wipe or restart would probably fix that. I think you guys would still rule the server based on your teamwork alone, but I think it would be harder for you to have the stats you have now. That's the only thing I've been calling for.

I also have no idea what your talking about for the 'running my mouth' comment. What facts about the Tribe have I said recently? If I'm wrong on something please tell me and I'll edit my post, just give me the facts. I can't think of what I've commented on fact wise recently.

As for the Chief's character on Roanoke's 500s, like I said get it from Kit Kat. He has it. He's given you guys plenty of other stuff on Roanoke anyways.

Alloin and Greb have both promised to pay me back irregardless of Kit Kat's ***** with the loan. They certainly don't listen to you when it comes to the Gang's silver, only Kit Kat does apparently. Unfortunately both of them haven't been on in almost a week now and I'm getting worried that they're gone forever. As Roanoke slowly fades because of the Chief's and Kit Kat's idiotic noob hunting, they're leaving the server will dim it even more. I'm poorer for that than I am for the loan.

[jwhitehorn]

Anybody on Plymouth can now get Legacy stuff by simply digging up Lime:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7439

Roanoke and Jamestown can continue to discuss if they need a wipe or not. Plymouth is now an even playing field.

Your Welcome,
Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Claeyt]

Anybody on Plymouth can now get Legacy stuff by simply digging up Lime:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7439

Roanoke and Jamestown can continue to discuss if they need a wipe or not. Plymouth is now an even playing field.

Your Welcome,
Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

Well at least they have access to it now. Of course this means your lime bombing fields for tons and tons of food.

still better than nothing for them I suppose.

[JeffGV]

Anybody on Plymouth can now get Legacy stuff by simply digging up Lime:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7439

Roanoke and Jamestown can continue to discuss if they need a wipe or not. Plymouth is now an even playing field.

Your Welcome,
Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

Uh, that isn't exactly true. Legacy worms are still there, as well with any legacy item stored away. Also, you're offering just the byproducts: you'll probably have quite a lot of legacy seeds stored away.
And you're making a profit pointing exactly at the fact that those foods aren't available anymore - something that shouldn't have happened to begin with. Also, this offer is obviously restricted to treaty payers.
And anyway, as items can be stolen beforehand to track the buyers, anyone who would rather oppose the tribe would rather avoid buying them to avoid risks.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

That we're even talking about how legacy hummus has determined the political landscape of this game is a reason to call for a wipe.

You need to reread this thread, if that's your interpretation of the discussion we're having. I've explained in detail how the political landscape of the game has been determined by the effort and competence of the ruling factions - and that this whining about legacy humus is a distraction motivated by politics.

Binks, Sab, Colesie, Dallane and other top players have also called for a wipe. Yes I'd like to see them fix the mechanics, but is that going to happen? Nobody knows, not even the dev's apparently.

Only one of those four could be considered a "top player." Hell, only one of those four is even actively playing. You've also failed to explain why there should be a wipe before mechanic adjustments are complete. Three of those four have called for you to stop posting, and that hasn't seemed to play out.

I have no idea what your talking about here. I'm not calling for a wipe for political grounds. I'm calling for it for the good of the game. Tiered food didn't solve the problem. Proficiency leveling didn't solve the problem, although both of those helped. Something's wrong with the game, and I think a wipe or restart would probably fix that.

You're a liar, you're calling for this solely on political grounds. You haven't even attempted to advance an argument on how a wipe or restart would fix the game, other than resetting the political landscape.

I also have no idea what your talking about for the 'running my mouth' comment. What facts about the Tribe have I said recently? If I'm wrong on something please tell me and I'll edit my post, just give me the facts.

Nothing's free, especially information - and I know you're not good for it.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster