Immersion

[jwhitehorn]

Sooo... you're saying a homeless guy can't be a doctor or accountant with a pedigree?

I'm saying its foolish to seek solid advice from a vagrant on the streets when you have a wealth of successful professionals giving you the answers you seek.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Potjeh]

You must've won all the highschool debates with your amazing ad hominem technique.

[jwhitehorn]

You must've won all the highschool debates with your amazing ad hominem technique.

Nice deflection. Point stands. Credibility of the individual providing feedback is paramount. I understand it can be frustrating to be the least educated and least experienced opinion in the thread and that throwing out the names of debate strategies/fallacies allows you to cloud the glaring fact of your ignorance on the subject, however, that is why I am encouraging you to try out the systems in place and then come back to the discussion with a decent knowledge base on the subject.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Potjeh]

You are supposed to point out the false parts, shouting you're wrong over and over again doesn't prove ****.

[Darwoth]

this is ***** retarded, are we actually debating the value of experience vs no experience?

edit: case in point.......

Copper buttons, for example, don't look bad on paper, but in reality nobody uses them because they don't give piercing damage.

interesting, i have 8 of them on my primary fighter.

there goes that whole experience vs having no idea what the ***** you are talking about thing again.

[jwhitehorn]

You are supposed to point out the false parts, shouting you're wrong over and over again doesn't prove ****.

I'm pretty sure Darwoth took care of this. There is no such thing as a massive cache of 100% humus. Nor could said humus regenerate enough humours to recover the permanent humour loss that would happen against a well-designed vault. Nor would a wipe be necessary when higher purities are obtainable and the system is completed as everybody will once again have access to the same materials through carebear activities.
Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Potjeh]

So 100% would be unbalanced, but 90% is close enough to what a new player can obtain that it doesn't really matter that only some people got it?

What does it matter if you can't glutton up to the old system humour levels, you can still glutton up significantly higher than people without legacy humus because their trees, and thus bins and humus, will be of significantly lower purity.

I'm pretty sure we will never see 100% pure anything again. Getting to the hard cap means there's no room for improvement, which is something loftar is opposed to. The most likely model is that 100% will be an asymptotic cap, ie effort investment requirements will approach infinity as you approach 100% pure.

[Darwoth]

the issue is not whether or not people can make 90% humus overnight, the issue is whether the current mechanics allow them to become a threat and compete with those who had/have 90% humus (which again, is exceedingly rare) and the answer as covered numerous times in numerous replies by myself and others that actually know how to play the game is yes.

[Potjeh]

A football team with two red cards can still beat a full one, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing unbalanced in making all the matches 9 vs 11.

[jwhitehorn]

So 100% would be unbalanced, but 90% is close enough to what a new player can obtain that it doesn't really matter that only some people got it?

EQ1 Had Manastones, WoW had Haloween Brooms that allowed instant-mounting in arenas, etc. etc. All MMO's I have played fall victim to having an item that is overpowered to what the new player can accomplish and/or get. However, in those cases the items were more permanent. Here we have a rapidly diminishing resource of "humus" AND players could band together and steal it from those who have it. I'm not arguing that legacy humus is not more powerful than currently obtainable humus. Its just not a big enough deal to warrant a wipe and will take care of itself in time. (it arguably already has)

What does it matter if you can't glutton up to the old system humour levels, you can still glutton up significantly higher than people without legacy humus because their trees, and thus bins and humus, will be of significantly lower purity.

Nope. The humus is 16% of the equation to trees. I'll let you do the math but it is nowhere near significant. Multiplier is about 33%-50% greater and if a path to water purity were implemented then ALL the trees will become obsolete anyway.

I'm pretty sure we will never see 100% pure anything again. Getting to the hard cap means there's no room for improvement, which is something loftar is opposed to. The most likely model is that 100% will be an asymptotic cap, ie effort investment requirements will approach infinity as you approach 100% pure.

Agreed. 100% is gone. Good that its gone. A fun mini-game that random stuff actually exists out there with the flashy number but its nowhere near plentiful enough to have a negative impact on the realities of character advancement. Only a psychological blow to those who honestly think it does and don't experiment with the systems themselves to find out how insignificant that little extra multiplier really is.

Again:

Humus is 16% of trees.
Then your Bin is spliced down from the lack of wood plug and/or nail purity
then your worm efficiency takes it down even further as nobody has 100% worms either

The multiplier between Tribe and Treaty Payer replicable compost humus is often within a couple % points of each other which amounts to an extra 20-40 extra gluttony value on a food, which amounts to a non-legacy- bin owner consuming at most 20% more food. If you arn't prepared to put in an extra 20% work to overthrow the status quo then you clearly don't deserve the victory anyway.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe