Immersion

[Ikpeip]

The point I'm making is that the PvP-imbalance you're all whining about is not mechanic-based, as you claim, but aptitude-based.

The problem is that no matter how good a new player is they will never be able to acquire legacy goods of the quality and quantity that some of the older player have. At this point a new play has to buy or steal legacy purity goods just to hope to reach 10% purity humus.

Now, if you would, explain why the answer to this situation is to wipe the servers, instead of putting systems in place to allow for purity advancement? Is anyone trying to claim a system where purity maxes out at 10% is desirable?

As an aside, your second sentence disproves your first. Don't like that someone is stockpiling something? Take it from them.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

I addressed every point.
...
My goals have never been to raid or PvP so there's no comparison to some of those things you mentioned.

Nonsense. You tried to avoid the points by reframing the argument to something else. The whole discussion regarding humors and the need for a wipe is rooted in PvPing and raiding. If you remove those from the equation because they're not "your goals" then why would you need a wipe? If your goal is to farmville, then you can do so under the current system as easily as you could after a reset.

The only reasons that could be advanced for a wipe are to either spark renewed interest in the game (the initial building rush tends to be more entertaining, which is why HnH has population spikes after world resets), or to level the playing field regarding hostile player-vs-player interactions. I haven't seen much discussion on the former, which is fitting, as resetting to spark interest without fixing the current mechanic issues would be ineffective. The latter is the whole reason we're having this discussion. The point I'm making is that the PvP-imbalance you're all whining about is not mechanic-based, as you claim, but aptitude-based.

Quit sniveling about your problems, and get to work. Even if you don't succeed, you'll find it easier to live with your failures and learn from them, than if you continue blaming everything else for your woes.

I would like a wipe because although my goals aren't PVP it makes it harder for new players to compete. I like seeing tons of people and living near neighbors and trading with other players. My goals aren't farmville, but rather building, and playing with the air of Perma-death danger. I don't mind dying (although I haven't), but hate seeing newer player's bases destroyed and people killed by other players that had a clear advantage when building their character.

"Wipe.... to level the playing field regarding hostile player-vs-player interactions." is exactly what we're calling for here. It's exactly our point that your making. I have no doubt that you guys would succeed in a restart or wipe. You've got the determination and Teamwork to do that, but right now nobody wants to play because they know that you got so high partially from changed mechanics and legacy bonuses. I know you guys also put in a lot of hard work, but you also had a clear advantage over newer players with the hummus nerf.

I'm mostly blaming the dev's for the failure of the game, other's didn't help but it falls on them. I'm not sniveling, I'm regretting how far this game has fallen. My only woes are that the game is dying right in front of my eyes and the players on top don't seem to care. They won't even acknowledge that their early participation gave them an unfair advantage and their legacy hummus and worms helped them stay there. It's not a game at that point it's "I was here first, and you can never get here." The top players might think that they've won somehow. but really it's just that almost everybody else quit when they realized that the game was stacked against them or because of the grind.

Don't like that someone is stockpiling something? Take it from them.

How exactly is he supposed to take it from you?

The only real hope that a new player has to get any purity above 10% is to either rummage through all the dead claims, or buy it from whatever the players on top are willing to sell them.

[JeffGV]

The wipe should have been done in consideration of the changes to the base mechanics. You weren't being able to get items with that purity anymore, and neither their byproducts.Some of them aren't even used as consumable items, like worms. If they didn't stop with the regular updates the cascade effect would also have been even more harsh - as they introduced new uses for items that also had a "legacy", more powerful version. Obviously,due of the PvP nature of the game, the Titans are just the cherry on the cake - and while the tiered food update was done in consideration of the new balance, there were still legacy flours here and there - something that made tiered foods exponentially powerful.

They basically changed the foundation of the game and tried to build over a crumbling floor.

[AmmaBoss]

you moron the game is good how it is yes the older player a on top but they been playing months before everyone else so they supported this game and play it everyday for a long period of time.They deserve to have an advantage over the new player.If this game was to be restart/wipe it would be very unfair to those player who spent months building up their titan. the older player do have an advantage but i am sure that no one on this game have a titan over 1000 humour which mean that if a group of 3 or more person team up and even get 300-400 humour which is very possible with new tier 3 food and 10% purity which is not hard to get. (just do as i did buy board and 2 piece of high purity humus plant pumpkin and feed worm.) they can kill a TItan.
if you guy still talking ***** about titan move to jamestown -_- it only have one.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

I would like a wipe because although my goals aren't PVP it makes it harder for new players to compete.

Then you concede we're talking about PvP here, and all the points I originally made regarding PvP still stand, unaddressed.

I don't mind dying (although I haven't)

You don't get to say that, until you've experienced it.

I'm mostly blaming the dev's for the failure of the game, other's didn't help but it falls on them. I'm not sniveling, I'm regretting how far this game has fallen. My only woes are that the game is dying right in front of my eyes and the players on top don't seem to care.

Crocodile tears. It's quite evident from your posts that you aspire for personal glory and wish to be seen as a hero of the people - but are not actually willing to do anything to help them. When given the option to prevent a genocide at the cost of stepping off your soapbox, you sacrificed the players you purport to care about.

...almost everybody else quit when they realized that the game was stacked against them or because of the grind.

Those are two very different problems with two very different solutions. Your proposal for a wipe solves neither.

Don't like that someone is stockpiling something? Take it from them.

How exactly is he supposed to take it from you?

Hard work. Ingenuity. Hustle.

The wipe should have been done in consideration of the changes to the base mechanics. You weren't being able to get items with that purity anymore, and neither their byproducts.Some of them aren't even used as consumable items, like worms. If they didn't stop with the regular updates the cascade effect would also have been even more harsh - as they introduced new uses for items that also had a "legacy", more powerful version. Obviously,due of the PvP nature of the game, the Titans are just the cherry on the cake - and while the tiered food update was done in consideration of the new balance, there were still legacy flours here and there - something that made tiered foods exponentially powerful.

They basically changed the foundation of the game and tried to build over a crumbling floor.

None of this addresses my central point - the solution is to fix the foundation, not to start throwing rocks through windows. I've yet to hear why a wipe is preferable to fixing the underlying mechanics which currently prevent significant advancement.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

Good evening,

I would like a wipe because although my goals aren't PVP it makes it harder for new players to compete.

Then you concede we're talking about PvP here, and all the points I originally made regarding PvP still stand, unaddressed.

We're talking about PvP, Base Destruction and Humour Monster activity against base defenses. PvP is really only part of it.

I don't mind dying (although I haven't)

You don't get to say that, until you've experienced it.

Meh, I've had a little base wrecked now. Same feeling. I've always just logged off.

I'm mostly blaming the dev's for the failure of the game, other's didn't help but it falls on them. I'm not sniveling, I'm regretting how far this game has fallen. My only woes are that the game is dying right in front of my eyes and the players on top don't seem to care.

Crocodile tears. It's quite evident from your posts that you aspire for personal glory and wish to be seen as a hero of the people - but are not actually willing to do anything to help them. When given the option to prevent a genocide at the cost of stepping off your soapbox, you sacrificed the players you purport to care about.

My tears are for the game, not myself. I have no aspirations to personal glory. I just want to see the game grow and I'm willing to add a little drama if it means helping new players. If I wanted personal glory I would have tried for a titan and raiding instead of trading, building and mapping.

I'm done talking about you guys trying to get me off the forums.

There was no guarantee that you would stop, and honestly I don't think you guys even care or realize how you're hurting the game by noob hunting like this with no competition and no consequence. It killed Plymouth and it will kill Roanoke. If we had a stable player base and competition so that you feared just nuking bases and leaving murder scents, it would be fine.

...almost everybody else quit when they realized that the game was stacked against them or because of the grind.

Those are two very different problems with two very different solutions. Your proposal for a wipe solves neither.

it would solve the first, but not the second. See last answer/point

Don't like that someone is stockpiling something? Take it from them.

How exactly is he supposed to take it from you?

Hard work. Ingenuity. Hustle.

It will be harder than before the nerf.

The wipe should have been done in consideration of the changes to the base mechanics. You weren't being able to get items with that purity anymore, and neither their byproducts.Some of them aren't even used as consumable items, like worms. If they didn't stop with the regular updates the cascade effect would also have been even more harsh - as they introduced new uses for items that also had a "legacy", more powerful version. Obviously,due of the PvP nature of the game, the Titans are just the cherry on the cake - and while the tiered food update was done in consideration of the new balance, there were still legacy flours here and there - something that made tiered foods exponentially powerful.

They basically changed the foundation of the game and tried to build over a crumbling floor.

None of this addresses my central point - the solution is to fix the foundation, not to start throwing rocks through windows. I've yet to hear why a wipe is preferable to fixing the underlying mechanics which currently prevent significant advancement.

You're right they do need to fix the rest of it first. They need to fix Gluttony, they need to fix Hummus and they need to fix other things. Until then a wipe is pointless. Unfortunately that means that we're counting on the dev's "Hard work, Ingenuity, and Hustle", and I'm losing faith that that will happen anytime soon. The game will sit in this giant empty state of suspended animation until it happens.

[JeffGV]

None of this addresses my central point - the solution is to fix the foundation, not to start throwing rocks through windows. I've yet to hear why a wipe is preferable to fixing the underlying mechanics which currently prevent significant advancement.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

Because those items are the byproduct of a different take on balance - one that ultimately failed and was taken out of the game. Same as the titan characters.
And the devs can't balance the current game taking in consideration both the legacy items and the new ones. The firsts are vastly more strong. Balance using them, and the byproducts of the normal items will be far too weak. Balance toward the normal items, and the firsts will give insane advantages.
You're right in that they should fix the underlying mechanics. But that isn't enough. Once they've fixed the foundation - once and for all - they should start with a clean slate. So that when they balance, they do it with the items and resources players are supposed to have, knowing that they will have those and just those.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

Below I respond to Claeyt. I've spoilered it because it looks a bit spammy.

We're talking about PvP, Base Destruction and Humour Monster activity against base defenses. PvP is really only part of it.

Everything I said still applies, and you're still unable to address it. You might be better off letting your compatriots argue your side.

Meh, I've had a little base wrecked now. Same feeling. I've always just logged off.

Losing "a little base" will not give the same feeling as the death of a significant character. Claiming it is just shows you're speaking from ignorance.

My tears are for the game, not myself. I have no aspirations to personal glory.

Your post history stands as evidence you're lying.

Hard work. Ingenuity. Hustle.

It will be harder than before the nerf.

You seem to have a fundamental aversion to hard work.

:roll:
...

Roll your eyes all you want, your position is still unsound and your arguments poorly-reasoned.

Changing gears:

Because those items are the byproduct of a different take on balance - one that ultimately failed and was taken out of the game. Same as the titan characters.
And the devs can't balance the current game taking in consideration both the legacy items and the new ones. The firsts are vastly more strong. Balance using them, and the byproducts of the normal items will be far too weak. Balance toward the normal items, and the firsts will give insane advantages.
You're right in that they should fix the underlying mechanics. But that isn't enough. Once they've fixed the foundation - once and for all - they should start with a clean slate. So that when they balance, they do it with the items and resources players are supposed to have, knowing that they will have those and just those.

It's probable that the updated gluttony system will make it easier, overall, to humor up (if it makes it more grindy for less reward, these discussions are probably a waste of time anyhow, as population will continue to dwindle). It's possible that the updated system will reduce or eliminate any advantage from legacy humus and seeds. With that in mind, isn't calling for a wipe first and foremost any time a discussion of these mechanics come up a bit premature? Surely you can understand how playing the wipe card every single time gets a bit tiresome? That's why people are snapping at the Apocalypse folks - protecting their hard work is part of it, sure, but primarily it's the incessant harping to eliminate the top factions and pretending it's out of a desire for "what's good for the game." Speak honestly looking at what needs to be fixed, instead of what you'd like to see happen as a side effect, and people will be a bit more polite. Except Darwoth. I don't think he likes you.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[DarkNacht]

The point I'm making is that the PvP-imbalance you're all whining about is not mechanic-based, as you claim, but aptitude-based.

The problem is that no matter how good a new player is they will never be able to acquire legacy goods of the quality and quantity that some of the older player have. At this point a new play has to buy or steal legacy purity goods just to hope to reach 10% purity humus.

Now, if you would, explain why the answer to this situation is to wipe the servers, instead of putting systems in place to allow for purity advancement? Is anyone trying to claim a system where purity maxes out at 10% is desirable?

As an aside, your second sentence disproves your first. Don't like that someone is stockpiling something? Take it from them.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

I'm not saying that the solution is to wipe the servers, I have not really made up my mind on what the best solution would be, and while I don't think 10%, or lower without lots of legacy good, is a good cap, I think that 100% is a bit too high to be achievable as easily as it was. I was simply pointing out that the power imbalance is not caused by a lack of skill but of opportunity.

Also my the ability to acquire a small amount of low to mid level legacy purity goods is not the same as having access to a stock pile of high level legacy goods. As far as taking it from them, its quite difficult even to find the location of anyone with a large amount of legacy good and most people with legacy good can easily build a base that you will not be able to raid without the humours that you need legacy goods to achieve. And even the people I've talked to with stores of 40-50% purity goods have them alt vaulted, and I'm fairly sure the devs would frown upon any attempt to 'raid' alt vaults.

[Potjeh]

Looking at the alchemy equipment, it's fairly clear that 100% pure is not intended to ever be achievable. The 100% hummus you people are using should never have existed, and can produce goods that will never be producible via legit methods. That's why a wipe is sorely needed. And do note I'm advocating wiping purity of items, but you people would have none of that either because you don't really give a **** about the game, you just want to stay kings of the graveyard.