We have permadeath. Great! But then we have alts. Why?

[mrnuggets]

I'm not what you'd consider an old fart on this forum, and this discussion has happened once and again in the odd post, but never in its own thread I think.

I thought that we could try and discuss/think of the "pros" and "cons" of having the access to alts within the game.

That way, we'd be able to know what others think of them, how they use them and ultimately if the possibility to have alts should or should not stay in the game.

------For hermits/farmers/carebears------

-Pretty straightforward. Allows to play more than one character. For your girlfriend/bro/yourself/whatever. But then, you could create a new account if you really wanted to. It'd be free, right ?
-Allows you to store stuff that you'd really really hate to lose if you die. Permadeath loses some of its purpose then, you don't have to be that careful and/or have that much silver in the bank. Akin to cheating?

------For raiders/pkers/griefers-----

-Same as above, plus allows you to scout/provoke people with alts with less dire consequences for your main character . Permadeath loses a lot of its purpose here again if one can simply be a jackass with his alt to probe people and not suffer real consequences. Akin to cheating?

I can't see atm any good reasons to have alts that serve gameplay/balance for everyone.

Having permadeath in Salem means that your most prized possession should be your character right? Don't alts bend this rule?

Clearly I am against having alts for one account. You guys?

Discuss maybe?

[Tonkyhonk]

I can't see atm any good reasons to have alts that serve gameplay/balance for everyone.

i cant see atm any good methods to prevent players from creating alts.
can you?

[mrnuggets]

I don't, no, not entirely but having only one character per account would help a bit. Nothing could stop players to create more accounts when the game goes gold of course. But it'd more of a hassle. (a wee bit more, granted)

As long as it's free to play and no one has to enter "unique" emails and payment credentials it's gonna be nigh impossible.

But there would be at least one benefit to not having alts one the one account, with the banking system: the bank wouldn't be shared with different characters/accounts. It'd complicate things somewhat.

Perhaps there are others too ?

BTW love the Tumbleweed. My pilgrim subscribed but his lost in nowhere lean-to only gets 2 weeks old releases, delivered by not so friendly bears!

Another idea. It might also be possible to make it harder people to have a decent alt, so that it would discourage people to do it so simply.

Like, complete newbs with fresh characters (if there was only one character per account) would not be able to travel the lumberwoods past a certain skill/level and would have to go through a certain tutorial/zone with which there would only be beginners (just an idea). And not be able to trade with other characters until after you've been through that, maybe 1-2 hours. So that losing an alt to do one again would be more of a pain in the a**.

Edit: Merged 2 posts.

[milonti]

There are legitimate uses to having alts, same as there are legitimate reasons for having multiple character slots in most MMORPGs. Its to play a different character. Maybe I have one who i want to be a witch vs another whos a witch hunter. A different persona per "alt" if you will.

It also makes it significantly easier if you want to play with two separate groups. You can keep characters organized for different play groups.

Last, it allows you to specialize. Maybe you dont want to risk losing proff points to bears, or to other players. To some extent, scouting with an alt is an extension of this. Its always better to have a specific tool for a specific task. Like have one whos super grinded in Stocks & Cultivars that specifically farms. They can have different outfits and such.

[Steve]

Like in Haven & Hearth many villages will prolly have armies of alts, it's just what the game mechanics dictate. Personally I don't like it - and it will be the main reason for me not to stay long with the game - but it is what it is. You either have to embrace the mechanic and use it or you better move on to other games.

In a way Salem is much more an MMORTS than an MMORPG. To be competitive you're supposed to have a bunch of characters under your command and to "use" the character that is best for a particular job: your farming character does your farms, your packmules carry your more valuable posessions, your miner does the mining, and if it's like in H&H your gatekeepers carry the keys to your gates. And then you have 3 or 4 fighter characters build purely for battle and another 1 or 2 build for foraging.

That way, when you lose one of your fighters or your forager in a PvP battle it's no big deal really, a minute later you're back with another one. And since your gatekeeper alt, your miner alt, your farmer alt and your crafter alt never leave the village they also never die.

As long as you have spare food or spare inspirationals just feed them to the alt army and soon enough permadeath is no more than a little inconvenience.

[Superiodity]

Would much prefer just 1 character per person, but as people have said some people use alts legitimately instead of just storing gold on them/making a char to player kill that they don't care about losing.

[pedrostr]

may i innocently (i never played H&H) ask why is there necessity of permadeath?

I would like to hear your opinion, but here goes mine:
Permadeath is the way Salem designers keep the interest in the game in the long run.
When all skills are discovered and people start to bore themselves, they turn to killing others and getting fights to cheer up in the game.
This way characters get killed, villages destroyed, and everything starts from scratch.
It's a nihilist approach.

[milonti]

It's a unique feature. Salem has permadeath; it wouldn't be Salem without it. Part of the game design process is deciding what features you want your game to have. There are very few MMOs these days that have permadeath. It builds a connections with your "main" character and makes violence against other charcters a serious consideration.

Sure, there are people that say "LOL I CAN JUST GRIND ANOTHER MURDERER UP IN A DAY" and thats probably true. But I bet you every one of them also laments if they have to do it. You strive to avoid death because its a much more dangerous sentence in this game. The grind feels worth it because theres a risk of losing it.

[MagicManICT]

Just a quick reply to the OT comment: More and more games are coming back around to hardcore modes and permadeath is a part of it. It's been overlooked in gaming for about 20 years for the most part. Many of us miss it. (Hardcore is all I ever play in Diablo.)

No, alts aren't needed in a game where a player isn't bound by a limited set of attributes and skills. However, given the nature of the game (permadeath), it is good to divide some skills up amongst multiple characters. There are also some things (such as a keymaster) that you just have to have an alt for. That said, there's no reason that there can't be an account limit to the number of active characters of something like 3 or 4. To keep people from spamming tons of accounts, you could limit account creation in a few ways.

This requires a willingness to actually change things, and I don't think the devs are willing. While there are some alt abuses, is there really anything that can be done to prevent players from abusing these things other than giving the players what they want for what they're creating the alts for?

[Sevenless]

Magic nailed it on the head. Alts are a very important part of this game by letting you not make swiss army knife characters. It allows you to retain functionality if one of your characters dies.