proficiency overhaul and experience decay

[Toorimakun]

the problem here is that it is hard enough starting a new char... most people like to hermit... and last time they made a change that required more grinding (purity nerf) about 2/3s if not more of the player base quit.


i think a better thing would be to add slotables that enhanced tasks in some way rather then making it harder.
for example:
trying to plan a warped board would have % chance of turning in to an oiled board.

[Thor]

the problem here is that it is hard enough starting a new char... most people like to hermit... and last time they made a change that required more grinding (purity nerf) about 2/3s if not more of the player base quit.


i think a better thing would be to add slotables that enhanced tasks in some way rather then making it harder.
for example:
trying to plan a warped board would have % chance of turning in to an oiled board.

Planing warped boards into oiled boards makes absolutely no sense.

[Dallane]

Thanks for all the constructive criticism. Everyones input is vaulable.

Like I said before decay is not easy and I generally dislike it becuase of bad implementations. Also it generates alot of hate in forums.

My point would be to prolong the midgame, reserve the end game for those worthy and, most of all, create incetives for specialization in this game where there currently are none. Now, decay can be implemented in various ways. Such as over RL time, time played, RL time plus some downtime or not even over time at all. It is very possible to maintain the incentive to specialize by decaying points earned by points earned. This could be done by absolute numbers or by relative numbers where decay by absolute numbers let players progress indefinitly and relative numbers generates a soft cap.

Decay by absolut numbers could mean that for every two points you earn you lose one. If you stay in one single field of work all this does is slow you down a bit but if you try to be a generalist you need a broader continious supply of inspirationals to maintain all skills. This is harder, thus promoting specialization and trade.

Decay by relative numbers means a softcap on proficiencis. Lets say that for every point earned you lose 1/10^6 of all points. That means that when you are at 500 000 points total you only earn them half as fast as you lose 0.5 points for every one earned. At 750 000 you earn them 1/4 the normal speed. And so on. However, with the discount to skills held for a long time there is still significant progress to be made but in the form of lower allocations made to skills in use. Essentially you would have to choose to either be a jack of all trades or a specialist. Since specialists generates more wealth then jack of all trades specialization would be encouraged.

None of these have the added benefit of reserving the end game for the best though. Decay over time requries you to put in effort and play smart. Good algorithms and a nice setup means you dont come back to nothing after being away but rather give you the oppurtunity to relive the experience at an increased pace taking you further every day.

There are other ways to achieve specializations, but they are generally worse. Like asking the player to choose stats or a class or locking out skills after other skills are chosen. Does anyone know any good ways to promote specialization?

I don't think anyone likes or wants this at all.

[Toorimakun]

Planing warped boards into oiled boards makes absolutely no sense.

as far as i know the only time boards get warped is when they are in the oiling trough.... normally planing them would turn them in to just a planed board and you would have to try again..... technically they have already been soaked in oil.

a lot of people want things to be more job related... and adding a bunch of socketable like this would add that... while a single person could have all the sets of cloths it would be unlikely.

other examples:
chance to find snakes
chance to find sugarcaps
reduced chance of getting moldy board

we already have digging and tree chopping.... and as you can see they could add a TON of these...

[pistolshrimp]

I think you might be suggesting this because you haven't played the game long enough. The end game is not when you have unlocked all your skills. The proficiencies go much much higher, and are useful/necessary to go much higher then even the highest skill needs. The mid-game has been prolonged, you just haven't played enough/haven't read the wiki yet.

[Toorimakun]

this doesn't come from people wanting the current skills to be more powerful.... a lot of people would like there to be jobs instead of 1 char doing every thing.

with the current setup that would be pointless... people could just mass make chars and changing the curret system of skills would probably really piss off the last of the player base.

[Thor]

Just raised S&C to 8000 -- Just knowing it won't be nearly enough makes me vomit.

[cairde]

Back from a refreshing vacation trip and happy to see new faces and more input.

While I haven't played the game for nearly as long as many of you, I have proficiencies in the hundreds, and plenty of pots and field in varying uses. More importantly, I have played the game for way longer than most players who sign up and have a fair grasp of what it means to players old and new. Then again, this is a sandbox game and it is to each his own. If the amount of S&C you feel that you need is not attainable by the amount of effort you are willing to provide then the fault is not with the game but with you.

By the same logic, what constitutes the mid/end game is something that have to be decided on by each and everyone. I would like to prolong the part of the game between makeing your first claim and buying your last skill. This is the part I think would be considered the mid game by most people (as in presumative players, not current players). To me this would not be as important as increasing player interaction but it would be a means to that end.

Equipment, yes, I too would like to see more civilian slotables. However, as the time required to log an alt is a lot less then the time to change your gear I think we would just see alot more alts. The effect would also be exagerated by the importance of location and the ability to teleport to Boston. And even if we can somehow get rid of all these problems, equipment can still be shared and/or inherited further lessening the effect of shocks to the organization level of your community or regular trade partners.

So, not convinced. Can we agree on the lack of specialization and player interaction being problems in the game and can anyone provide another way to tackle this problem? Most people hermit, it is a very viable strategy but not very fun. Being able to at all single player a MMO is a virtue of the game. Single player being a dominant strategy is a fault of the game.

While player retention is important, if changes to a failing game in beta stage of development pisses you off, then dont play games in beta. However, I am sure Seatribe could find a reasonable conversion rate of current proficiencies to future proficiencis that will not let old players hard grind go to waste.

[Potjeh]

Haven and Hearth belief sliders have taught us that forcing people to specialize just means forcing them to make alts.

[cairde]

The point here is that managing alts in an enviroment with experience decay is more work than generalizing. Or in the best case scenario, just as much work. Therefore no alts. This is because there is a skill tree and maintaining two sets of prerequisites is in efficient compared to maintaining one. Using alts would be heavily discouraged by any mechanism that uses decay over time.

The point is not to force anyone to specialize but to give people incentive to organize by giving them incentive to specialize. You should still be able to forage and do agro stuff on your own. Or maybe forage and build defenses or agro and defenses. Or any such combination of roles you can maintain within the budget constraint defined by the number and distribution of inspirationals you can get your hand on and the persistent discounts to skills you have used for a long time.