The problem with cave-ins

[n0kturnal]

So, I got my first cave in today. I didn't have a mine support ready to build, but I was also pretty curious to see what it would do, so I wouldn't have built one anyway.

This is going to be a whiny rant, but here it is. Why is there a need to add so many layers of grinding to this goddamn game? So you dig out your mine a little bit, wait for dry boards, build mine supports. Don't use up all your dry boards though, because if you see a cave-in, DO EVERYTHING in your power to stop it. No dry boards = don't even think about mining.

Back to my story, I moved out everything in a five by five area around the dust - figured that it would be enough room for the few rocks to fall down. Went afk then came back to utter disaster. One quarter of my mine is now filled up with random blocks of mineable tiles. In a 20x20 mine, 38 'new' cave in tiles appeared on top of the storage area I had set up. I can't get to my chests, I can barely walk in my mine since I moved things to the sides 'temporarily', and it's so haphazard I don't even know where to begin.

I'm a hermit, and my time in this game needs to spent tending fields, collecting fertilizer, tending the turkeys, and all the other major functions needed to run 'the farm.' So now, my entire storage area is covered in new tiles, I can't get to my stored food, or retrieve the stored cereal to feed the bins and the turkeys. If I want to get back to SQUARE ONE where I started this morning, I'm looking at 30mins to light fires, then another 20-30 to mine out the tiles. Also, I like to chip my boulders down immediately to keep the clutter under control. NOT POSSIBLE with the boulders that come out of the mineable tiles. I didn't do an accurate count, but I KNOW they have more then the 45 stone you can chip from normal stone boulders.

My problem is not with the cave in mechanic, its the way it is implemented. It penalizes the player, especially the hermit, for a simple mistake (or morbid curiosity in my case). 4-5 tiles would have been more then enough - but 38?!?!?!? Seriously, 5 tiles would've been more in line with Haven's cave in mechanic. I guess since you have "5-10" minutes to build a support, they want to ensure that you won't do it again by punishing us with useless clutter. I would much rather have it fall on my head, take some percentile blood damage, and risk being trapped in an 'instant' cave-in that DID not place THIRTY ***** EIGHT mineable tiles across 20% of my mine.

/rant off

[Powowclouds]

Your lucky, I placed a mine support but didnt realize it had to be under the tile that had the particle effect... so I had a cave in anyways, it landed on my 4 brand new wooden chests that were full of dry boards, exploding 3 out 4 of my chests. As im mining out the rubble all the boards that have dropped from the chests disappear. Items magically removing themselves 30 mins after they drop is a awesome game mechanic, especially when you are in the same room with them.

[n0kturnal]

Yeah, this is just one of the most infuriating parts of the game. I'm not sure if any of the chests I hadn't move popped, but you can be sure if it did it was the one with the most valuable contents that you've been saving up for 2 months. I still have yet to log back on since I mined out two tiles, I'm just frustrated, and I feel like it's not going to be any better when I log on later. Is that what Jorbtar wants? "I want to play this game, but it has X mechanic which is completely useless and frustrating." I can understand in a f2p there are inconveniences built in to make you want to pay up to get around that crap, but sometimes you just have to draw the line as a developer. When you have a fun game that people want to play all the time, I was logging 8+ hours a day for a while there, why introduce more and more stuff that just sap the fun out of the game.

I know this is beta, that more good things will come, and the fun will return - but at this point I'm not surprised that many are taking a break until things get back to a stable state. I'm not going to quit over cave ins, but if I hit another 'brick wall' like this, it's gonna be hard to justify sinking any more time into this game. Not a threat, but there are a TON of free MMOs out there, plus 10$ indie games released every week - a gamer on a budget like me simply has a lot more options in 2013.

[Tamasin]

i had a cave in and also made the mistake of building my mine support in the wrong place. it was a pain clearing out the mess, but at least i didn't have any items stored in its way. i'm glad i found out that can happen.

[sebastion]

I have just been proactive and put the supports in first.

Seems like the safest bet. Except maybe at the beginning when you dont have the resources yet. But then you have less to lose as well.

[n0kturnal]

I definitely wanted to make sure I had supports all around, but this 1-2 tile area was in a gap between support radius. Since you can't see a visual of where the mine supports are protecting (unless you use the build command and place the unbuilt over the built one to judge the area) and I wasn't even aware that this 'layer' of tiles would have unprotected spots, it caught me by surprise. That said, I still wanted to see what a cave in would do, since I figured it would be manageable. I got far more then I bargained for, and obviously I won't let it happen again.

Point is, the mechanic as it stands is far too punishing and takes away my precious free time to bash me over the head and say, "SEE! WE TOLD YOU TO BUILD MINE SUPPORTS!!!!ONE!!!111!!!!"

I think the instant cave in with health loss, possible entrapment, and a FEW tiles would be much more fair and reasonable.

[Mereni]

38 tiles??? That's far more than I would have expected as well. I haven't had one yet, but I imagined maybe 9. The cave-in tile and the surrounding. It does seem pretty ridiculous that this is what happens, and that you get stone boulders out of the clearing. Stone boulders have 100 stone in them, don't they? 3800 stone to be disposed of seems like a very harsh punishment.

I sincerely hope this is a bug and the cave-in punishment will be adjusted very soon. It's starting to seem like the devs either have no idea what will be fun to the players, or they just don't care.

[Kandarim]

38 tiles??? That's far more than I would have expected as well. I haven't had one yet, but I imagined maybe 9. The cave-in tile and the surrounding. It does seem pretty ridiculous that this is what happens, and that you get stone boulders out of the clearing. Stone boulders have 100 stone in them, don't they? 3800 stone to be disposed of seems like a very harsh punishment.

I sincerely hope this is a bug and the cave-in punishment will be adjusted very soon. It's starting to seem like the devs either have no idea what will be fun to the players, or they just don't care.

on the other hand, i've been trying to get some cave ins in high-purity mines. The stones make perfect purity increase for filets on the rocks, a perfect food for newer players who fish at one time or the other anyway.

[Dad00]

A mine cave in is not to be taken lightly. In real life it can be a huge disaster. I too suffered a mine cave in. 21squares of cave in material. I failed to put the mine support under the caving in tile. 15 seconds after misplacing the mine support I found myself hopelessly trapped on a single square with no hope of escape. I had to drop my inventory (some food, an axe, and a shovel) and travel to Boston to escape. The cave in stone boulders I remove are being used for slingshot stone and walls. I have not removed all the caved in tiles, I just mine around it.

[Powowclouds]

38 tiles??? That's far more than I would have expected as well. I haven't had one yet, but I imagined maybe 9. The cave-in tile and the surrounding. It does seem pretty ridiculous that this is what happens, and that you get stone boulders out of the clearing. Stone boulders have 100 stone in them, don't they? 3800 stone to be disposed of seems like a very harsh punishment.

I sincerely hope this is a bug and the cave-in punishment will be adjusted very soon. It's starting to seem like the devs either have no idea what will be fun to the players, or they just don't care.

on the other hand, i've been trying to get some cave ins in high-purity mines. The stones make perfect purity increase for filets on the rocks, a perfect food for newer players who fish at one time or the other anyway.

I just use the dross from my smelting for the fillets of rocks and inspirationals.

As far as 38 tiles.. this is about right I have atleast 25 boulders outside my base from mine and still have about a 7-8 tile wall section that is not mining material.