Siege artifices and destruction of property

[Droj]

These other mechanics you speak of, would they also leave scents or is it a why for a perp to be more clandestine but do much less in terms of amount of theft?

[iotuegli]

2 different artifices... can be good but in a so fragile part of game everything can break with a bad use of sistems


some easy ways to make that work:
-fixed minimum time to get rid of a wall segment, like 15 seconds for a plank fence, 10 for a stone wall and less for others (a tree needs 30s i assume with iron axe)

theft articifer
- +100% phlegm cost to break walls, no phlegm add destroying structures
- no crime when looking in a non-lockeable container (like crates, urns etc)
- lockpicking for lockeable containers, more harder to succed as the better is a container (easy for chests but insanely hard for sheds/cupboards... even more for iron chests)
- when committing a crime you have 50% change to lit braziers... not allways but when they lit you have little change to being KO
- little dmg reduction from braziers


vandalism artificier
- crime everytime you do something in the place
- -50% cost of phlegm breaking walls, no phlegm add destroying structures
- normal dmg from braziers, some can miss their shots due to your special armor (i think tankers like that need a little luck-factor to neglet a little amount of braziers firing)




i don't know how that will work, i only posted how that could work

[Mereni]

2 different artifices... can be good but in a so fragile part of game everything can break with a bad use of sistems


some easy ways to make that work:
-fixed minimum time to get rid of a wall segment, like 15 seconds for a plank fence, 10 for a stone wall and less for others (a tree needs 30s i assume with iron axe)

A tree actually needs 3 minutes with an iron axe and without tree cutting artifice. And walls take longer than that to bash down as well, even with very powerful characters.

I don't think your ideas would work since the artifacts we have now add +# to something, so a theft artifice would have to give an extra success or speed to lockpicking or wall climbing, which is a skill we'd need to have, and extra success to some kind of sneak skill to avoid brazier notice. It's hard to say since this is a mechanic we don't have at all right now.

For the vandalism, artifacts that give brazier damage reduction would be nice. So would either faster destruction of whatever or phlegm cost reduction.

It would be really interesting if something like this were implemented. Raiders would have to choose between outfits aimed at combat or aimed at raiding. A tough choice if one is running around alone. A really good fighting outfit can make a big difference in combat, but if a good vandalism or theft outfit made a similar difference to raiding, raiders might be forced to run around always in pairs or small groups to be effective. And there would be more defined roles during raids that would make even more coordination a must.

[Claeyt]

An idea that was brought up a time or two is dividing destruction of a base and plain old theft into two distinct systems.

I would also like that, as I think I mentioned in the announcement thread for the waste claims. My intention would be that it should be possible to develop skills to get past walls without having to break them (and/or a lockpicking skill), and therefore being able to enter a base for stealing (or summoning, &c.) without having to destroy anything; which is the reason only vandalism crimes are prohibited without using a waste claim.

However, trying to figure out a working system for such vandalism-less stealing turned out to be harder than I thought, since one could simply wall one's base off with non-wall structures, like woodpiles or whatever, that wouldn't be passable using such a wall-scaling mechanic, and would be impossible to destroy without vandalism. I've been considering some kind of mechanic whereby one could "strafe" between (non-wall) objects that are built next to each other, but that just seems like a very ugly solution, requiring its own completely distinct movement system and whatnot.

Climbing over walls was mentioned as a theft skill previously. There could be 2 new maneuver skills that would replace 'Criminal Acts' that could turned on, maybe name one 'Stealth' and the other 'Waste'. 'Stealth' would allow you to Climb over walls or stick piles or anything, pick locks on cabinets and sheds, and maybe steal stuff without setting off brazier fire or minimizing brazier damage based on CnDskill somehow. All Stealth acts could be non-summonable, where all 'Waste' criminal acts would be summonable and set off braziers.

things about this exact stuff:

1. Why aren't Houses Lockable? Make houses worth more to build and much, much harder to destroy. What did the old settlers do when their claim got attacked? The ran into their house and hid. Make the 'Waste' or 'Stealth' criminals work to get into a house. Maybe make it so that if someone is inside the house, you can't pick the lock on it or get in without breaking it. Maybe make the houses harder to build.

2. Siege weapons. The waste claim is pretty awkward. The rams in HnH did seem to be kind of a neat aspect to the game. Make them slow to move and then maybe move faster with the more people pushing them. Make them vulnerable for more time than 4 hours. Make them transportable by boat but not Canoe (For places like Candy Island). Make the boat move really, really, really slow with them on it and take more damage while moving, maybe make the boat have a chance to sink with a Ram on it based on skill. Maybe make the Ram go into a boat in pieces then be reassembled out of the boat and dried again for 8-24 hrs on the island or claim. let Rams move on shallow water, but then require even more time to dry. Make the Rams require more drying time after they've been in a boat (maybe 4 hours or so) and make them unclaimed so they can be moved on a PC or VC without owning them. Also right now there's too much porting with a waste claim Warning, the Rams would provide some sort of warning but also some skill to use for surprise.

3. Maybe just make some unbreakable walls without a waste claim or battering ram, but make them really expensive. Iron and a ton of brick.

[Dallane]

1. Why aren't Houses Lockable? Make houses worth more to build and much, much harder to destroy. What did the old settlers do when their claim got attacked? The ran into their house and hid. Make the 'Waste' or 'Stealth' criminals work to get into a house. Maybe make it so that if someone is inside the house, you can't pick the lock on it or get in without breaking it. Maybe make the houses harder to build.

2. Siege weapons. The waste claim is pretty awkward. The rams in HnH did seem to be kind of a neat aspect to the game. Make them slow to move and then maybe move faster with the more people pushing them. Make them vulnerable for more time than 4 hours. Make them transportable by boat but not Canoe (For places like Candy Island). Make the boat move really, really, really slow with them on it and take more damage while moving, maybe make the boat have a chance to sink with a Ram on it based on skill. Make the Rams require more drying time after they've been in a boat (maybe 4 hours or so) and make them unclaimed so they can be moved on a PC or VC without owning them. Also right now there's too much porting with a waste claim Warning, the Rams would provide some sort of warning but also some skill to use for surprise.

3. Maybe just make some unbreakable walls without a waste claim or battering ram, but make them really expensive. Iron and a ton of brick.

They have been wanting to do all of this for awhile. Hopefully the ram bug doesn't follow into here lol

[Claeyt]

They have been wanting to do all of this for awhile. Hopefully the ram bug doesn't follow into here lol

Ram bug? What's the ram bug? I only tried HnH for a couple of weeks.

Also, could you move the Rams by boat in HnH? No, right?

[Dallane]

They have been wanting to do all of this for awhile. Hopefully the ram bug doesn't follow into here lol

Ram bug? What's the ram bug? I only tried HnH for a couple of weeks.

Also, could you move the Rams by boat in HnH? No, right?

Ram bug is that people can move the ram from a far distance without it breaking on them before reaching the walls.

Not sure if you could raft rams but you couldn't take them in normal boats

[martinuzz]

..However, trying to figure out a working system for such vandalism-less stealing turned out to be harder than I thought, since one could simply wall one's base off with non-wall structures, like woodpiles or whatever, that wouldn't be passable using such a wall-scaling mechanic, and would be impossible to destroy without vandalism. I've been considering some kind of mechanic whereby one could "strafe" between (non-wall) objects that are built next to each other, but that just seems like a very ugly solution, requiring its own completely distinct movement system and whatnot..

Two words.
flying
broomsticks

[Darwoth]

An idea that was brought up a time or two is dividing destruction of a base and plain old theft into two distinct systems.

I would also like that, as I think I mentioned in the announcement thread for the waste claims. My intention would be that it should be possible to develop skills to get past walls without having to break them (and/or a lockpicking skill), and therefore being able to enter a base for stealing (or summoning, &c.) without having to destroy anything; which is the reason only vandalism crimes are prohibited without using a waste claim.

However, trying to figure out a working system for such vandalism-less stealing turned out to be harder than I thought, since one could simply wall one's base off with non-wall structures, like woodpiles or whatever, that wouldn't be passable using such a wall-scaling mechanic, and would be impossible to destroy without vandalism. I've been considering some kind of mechanic whereby one could "strafe" between (non-wall) objects that are built next to each other, but that just seems like a very ugly solution, requiring its own completely distinct movement system and whatnot.

oh god, inc newbs with 25 cloak and dagger wall climbing skill summoning everyone and stealing everything.

system is mostly fine how it is, currently if you have a town bell your attackers are forced to fight you if you so choose which is about 500 times better than a ***** slinking around when your offline to summon you or steal your **** that you had no chance of defense against.

wall climbing also firmly puts the balance of the game entirely into the zerg factions, if they have to work through defense a smaller group of defenders has a chance at repelling them, if 15 russians can just rush your walls at the same time because they can climb over them and zerg the defenders in 20 seconds it pretty well ***** up the game.

[Claeyt]

oh god, inc newbs with 25 cloak and dagger wall climbing skill summoning everyone and stealing everything.

system is mostly fine how it is, currently if you have a town bell your attackers are forced to fight you if you so choose which is about 500 times better than a ***** slinking around when your offline to summon you or steal your **** that you had no chance of defense against.

wall climbing also firmly puts the balance of the game entirely into the zerg factions, if they have to work through defense a smaller group of defenders has a chance at repelling them, if 15 russians can just rush your walls at the same time because they can climb over them and zerg the defenders in 20 seconds it pretty well ***** up the game.

They could just make summoning activate brazier fire, or summoning would not let them climb out, or maybe lead to a huge drain, so that nobody would summon without an escape route through the walls. There's lots of options to making it tough to summon while thieving.