Episode IX: Decapitation of the Rebellion

[Gallient]

I am not making the initial claims, and you cannot prove a negative, so burden of proof is on all these unsubstantiated claims of Tribe actively bug abusing. Shifting the burden of proof is one of those obvious fallacies.

I'm not asking you to prove anything. I'm simply asking you to educate yourself on the history of what you're talking about. Tribal bug abuse has been with us since the first ships left for the New World, and there is plenty of evidence of it, if you care to open your eyes and look. I don't believe it's the responsibility of the existing community members to explain everything that has ever happened to each new member who decides to suck on the Chief's testicles. Especially in the case of someone like yourself, who has been around long enough to actually see it, but is just too blinded by the Chief's pubes in your eyes to look.

You mean an individual assisting the Rebellion before members of said Rebellion decided to expose him and thus try to get the Chief to kill him? If you're going to commit Libel then at least have the decency to back it up instead of alluding to some supposed evidence. You are right to say I've been around awhile, since August shortly after the start of the server, and I've also been in contact with persons on both sides. I very well know what's going on in both factions, same as Paymaster Paul did, and after working against the Tribe we both decided that the Tribe is the side we'd rather be on. That should say something to anyone buying into the Dogma of GH and the Rebellion, the underdog is of course the more intriguing prospect, but the Tribe has respect for both its members and Salem as a whole that you won't find on the other side.

[Mushibag]

Yeah, I wasn't here for any of that exposure to the Chief trying to get you killed nonsense, so I can't really comment on that. I was simply trying to make you realize that the Chief and the Tribe have been abusing known bugs for a long time. But I'm sure you are well aware of that, and simply helping to create the illusion of morality and principles for the Tribe, so I'll stop wasting my time.

[Gallient]

Yeah, I wasn't here for any of that exposure to the Chief trying to get you killed nonsense, so I can't really comment on that. I was simply trying to make you realize that the Chief and the Tribe have been abusing known bugs for a long time. But I'm sure you are well aware of that, and simply helping to create the illusion of morality and principles for the Tribe, so I'll stop wasting my time.

I have yet to be presented with anything that would say otherwise. "Creating an illusion" would seemingly imply that I have to work to create anything. The fact is its all just a matter of every time someone claims bug abuse perpetuated by the Tribe, its always those vehemently against the Tribe who can't be bothered with screenshots, or fraps or anything. They expect everyone else to take them at their word regardless of their own admitted usage of bugs, exploits, betrayals, antagonistic language and whatever else I haven't thought of. I don't have to create anything, all I have to do is ask if you have ANYTHING other than constant accusations with the express purpose of creating animosity for the Tribe. If people don't like them for the Treaty, raids, dominance or whatever else that's up to them, there is not need to create fiction to try to balance some equation.

[FutureForJames]

Yeah, I wasn't here for any of that exposure to the Chief trying to get you killed nonsense, so I can't really comment on that. I was simply trying to make you realize that the Chief and the Tribe have been abusing known bugs for a long time. But I'm sure you are well aware of that, and simply helping to create the illusion of morality and principles for the Tribe, so I'll stop wasting my time.

I have yet to be presented with anything that would say otherwise. "Creating an illusion" would seemingly imply that I have to work to create anything. The fact is its all just a matter of every time someone claims bug abuse perpetuated by the Tribe, its always those vehemently against the Tribe who can't be bothered with screenshots, or fraps or anything. They expect everyone else to take them at their word regardless of their own admitted usage of bugs, exploits, betrayals, antagonistic language and whatever else I haven't thought of. I don't have to create anything, all I have to do is ask if you have ANYTHING other than constant accusations with the express purpose of creating animosity for the Tribe. If people don't like them for the Treaty, raids, dominance or whatever else that's up to them, there is not need to create fiction to try to balance some equation.

A better question is: how can there be bug abuse in a game where it is allowed to use any bug to any extent? I can see plenty of bug "use", but certainly not any "abuse". If we are going to define "bug abuse" as using something in a way the devs did not intend, then plenty of people are guilty of "abusing" the farming bug: namely that it was far easier to reach 100% purity than the devs had intended.

Edit: For clarification I am using following definition of "bug": Informal. a defect or imperfection, as in a mechanical device, computer program, or plan; glitch: The test flight discovered the bugs in the new plane. from dictionary.com. I.e. an imperfection in the plan Loftar had for farming in this game.

[staxjax]

Tribe uses bugs and exploits, but denies knowing about or abusing them, and continues to use them (while in complete denial) until the are actually fixed.

Everybody else uses bugs and exploits, doesn't really give a ***** about their image, will readily admit to using them, and will report the bugs/exploits at the same time.

Fact: Everytime the tribe has (ab)used a bug/exploit, somebody else has had to report it for it to get fixed.

Go look it up Gallient, you ***** retard.

[Ornery]

The fact is its all just a matter of every time someone claims bug abuse perpetuated by the Tribe, its always those vehemently against the Tribe who can't be bothered with screenshots, or fraps or anything. They expect everyone else to take them at their word regardless of their own admitted usage of bugs, exploits, betrayals, antagonistic language and whatever else I haven't thought of. I don't have to create anything, all I have to do is ask if you have ANYTHING other than constant accusations with the express purpose of creating animosity for the Tribe. If people don't like them for the Treaty, raids, dominance or whatever else that's up to them, there is not need to create fiction to try to balance some equation.

Here's one that happened just last night: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5841

Bug used and not reported: Unreachable waste claim idol. Fairly serious, considering if you have no way to reach the idol to break it, the raid can potentially never end. A dev even said it wasn't intended. Oh look, here's a quote of you even saying it wasn't intended and they'd be hypocrites if they continued the raid, which they did.

There would indeed be hypocrisy if they continued to use it NOW that its been declared as unintended.

Guess MM Tribe are bug-abusing hypocrites, or at least, so says Gallient.

[Gallient]

The fact is its all just a matter of every time someone claims bug abuse perpetuated by the Tribe, its always those vehemently against the Tribe who can't be bothered with screenshots, or fraps or anything. They expect everyone else to take them at their word regardless of their own admitted usage of bugs, exploits, betrayals, antagonistic language and whatever else I haven't thought of. I don't have to create anything, all I have to do is ask if you have ANYTHING other than constant accusations with the express purpose of creating animosity for the Tribe. If people don't like them for the Treaty, raids, dominance or whatever else that's up to them, there is not need to create fiction to try to balance some equation.

Here's one that happened just last night: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5841

Bug used and not reported: Unreachable waste claim idol. Fairly serious, considering if you have no way to reach the idol to break it, the raid can potentially never end. A dev even said it wasn't intended. Oh look, here's a quote of you even saying it wasn't intended and they'd be hypocrites if they continued the raid, which they did.

There would indeed be hypocrisy if they continued to use it NOW that its been declared as unintended.

Guess MM Tribe are bug-abusing hypocrites, or at least, so says Gallient.

That's actually all been discussed and the Chief references Jorb that even after the fact he only considers it an unintended consequence. Chief also references the stream in which Jorb states bluntly that he knew you had to be part of the village to use the waste-claim tied to it (although I have not reviewed the stream myself). I simply have no clue why you do not address those facts at all and just continuously refer to it as proof of bug abuse.

[Ornery]

"Unintended consequence", eh? Weren't 1x1 fields just an "unintended consequence" of the old fields not being full 4x4 objects? Those seem to be brought up quite a bit and can be explained away just as easily with the tribe's new blanket "unintended consequence" label.

Unintended Consequence is just the ***** way of saying "I used a bug".

EDIT: What is a bug, if not an unintended consequence in the coding?

[Gallient]

"Unintended consequence", eh? Weren't 1x1 fields just an "unintended consequence" of the old fields not being full 4x4 objects? Those seem to be brought up quite a bit and can be explained away just as easily with the tribe's new blanket "unintended consequence" label.

Unintended Consequence is just the ***** way of saying "I used a bug".

First the distinction: Jorb's exact words, "there is a legitimate distinction between a bug and an unintended consequence, I do believe."

Jorb himself was weary to even label this a bug. All the mechanics of this raid were within the game's limits.

Lets ignore the distinction however so I can just point out(again) the fact that Jorb's ruling came AFTER JC decided to personally message him and complain about it. AFTER the event you are referencing. AFTER JC was already dead. All information disseminated by Jorb beforehand contained no implications whatsoever that the tactic was not a legit one.

[Ornery]

Lets ignore the distinction however so I can just point out(again) the fact that Jorb's ruling came AFTER JC decided to personally message him and complain about it. AFTER the event you are referencing. AFTER JC was already dead. All information disseminated by Jorb beforehand contained no implications whatsoever that the tactic was not a legit one.

He messaged jorb before he even went inside the walls to bash the idol, and since you can't bash when you're dead.. I guess you're wrong.