Improve neglected fertilizers: Clay and Dross

[Hans_Lemurson]

At the very least, Clay needs a serious improvement. Why does clay need improving? Because it has negative value.

...Wait, negative?

Yep! Using clay is actually worse than using Zero fertilizer. The trouble is from its speed penalty, and the fact that subtracting from a percentage is more potent than adding to it.

Currently, clay gives -10% Speed, +10% Influence. After 10 applications of clay, the total effect is -50% Speed, +50% Influence. That seems like it should merely cancel out and result in clay merely being worthless, but it gets worse.

The effect on the field is that it is now at 50% Speed and 150% Influence. This means that the field takes 2x as long to mature, but only produces 1.5x the influence from that crop. Effectively the field is now operating at 50% Plenty and 75% Influence. Clay's influence bonus is totally overpowered by its speed penalty.

Either Clay's influence-boost needs to be increased, or its speed penalty needs to be reduced. Then it would merely be a BAD fertilizer, not a fertilizer which is more effective dropped in the Ocean than on your fields

Now, what about Dross?
It's speed bonus is ok, and it's Plenty Penalty is merely annoying since it is partly offset by the speed (and you're likely after an influence-boost or are trying to breed for purity anyways, so the plenty is less of an issue). However, it is simply a poor fertilizer. I understand that its purpose is just as an alternate use for what would otherwise be a waste product, but when you're doing agriculture you want to get the most out of your fields, and that means using the best fertilizers. Even if you take away the plenty penalty, you still need to use 3x as much Dross to get the same effect as charcoal because of the penalties that kick in for large quantities. Also, unlike charcoal, there is a hard limit on the amount of Dross you can use, since you can't lower Plenty more to more than 50%. This means that if you don't use some Lime or Humus before starting to dump your dross on a field, then your speed bonus is capped at 50% plus the
initial planting bonus. This means that although Dross may be plentiful, you can't actually USE of all of its bountiful cheapness to boost your speed.

In Conclusion:
Currently Clay is rubbish, and Dross is of limited utility. I propose that they both be improved to the point of being "Merely Adequate"

Clay: -5% Speed, +15% Influence
Dross: -5% Plenty, +10% Speed

With these changes it might become worthwhile to use these fertilizers once in a while, as opposed to never.

Seriously, why would you even HAVE a resource in the game which has negative value, unless you're trying to troll the players -- Oh. Right...

[Mereni]

It's probably due to the fact that mixing actual clay or smelting cast offs into your garden will pretty much have a negative effect in real life. They also added a positive effect for if you are really desperate enough to mix something like that into your field. Also, dross is good for trolling a neighbor who put his fields outside his claim, or if you live in a village.

[Hans_Lemurson]

It's probably due to the fact that mixing actual clay or smelting cast offs into your garden will pretty much have a negative effect in real life.

True, but then why not also let Salt be a "fertilizer" that adds a -100% penalty to Plenty, Speed and Influence?

[Mereni]

It's probably due to the fact that mixing actual clay or smelting cast offs into your garden will pretty much have a negative effect in real life.

True, but then why not also let Salt be a "fertilizer" that adds a -100% penalty to Plenty, Speed and Influence?

Maybe they just didn't think of it. At any rate, I wouldn't use dross or clay even if the positives were made better.

[eksu]

... Why not also let Salt be a "fertilizer" that adds a -100% penalty to Plenty, Speed and Influence?

Actually, can we implement this? That would be great.

[Hans_Lemurson]

Maybe they just didn't think of it. At any rate, I wouldn't use dross or clay even if the positives were made better.

Which is kinda my point. Why have a feature if it's never used?

... Why not also let Salt be a "fertilizer" that adds a -100% penalty to Plenty, Speed and Influence?

Actually, can we implement this? That would be great.

I think it's been proposed before. I think it should probably give +100% upkeep too while you're at it. That's what will really hurt if it is a high-tier field.

[staxjax]

FYI, you used to be able to alter the purity of your crops substiantially by using dross as a fertilizer. I kind of liked the way the prospecting, mining, and farming systems intertwined like that...before that, dross had no use besides being flagged as any stone. I guess it was a bit OP, so they just removed purity effects of fertilizers on crops altogether.

[Procne]

I think it would be interesting if we returned to that system once there are more types of fertilizers which may have increased purity

[Hans_Lemurson]

FYI, you used to be able to alter the purity of your crops substiantially by using dross as a fertilizer. I kind of liked the way the prospecting, mining, and farming systems intertwined like that...before that, dross had no use besides being flagged as any stone. I guess it was a bit OP, so they just removed purity effects of fertilizers on crops altogether.

Ah, interesting. That's useful to know.

Has Clay ever had different properties, or has it always been a troll fertilizer?

[MagicManICT]

"Troll fertilizer" I think fits the whole idea. Raid your enemies, but drop so much clay on their fields it'll take a month before they can harvest them. It's even better than destroying as it takes up all that space. Of course, destroying them is probably easier and less time consuming (not to mention cheaper on resources).

You really don't want to add clay into the ground you want to grow things on. If you don't kill the plants, they'll be very stunted. Clay prevents proper root growth, can't be properly aerated, and prevents plants from effectively absorbing the moisture.