A change to the combat system (Haven inspired)

[Dallane]

RPG combat systems suck. Do you really want another "stand there and spam buttons until death" system? Kill that crap because it was dead once network speeds and server processing got fast enough to transmit user actions in real time, which was around the middle of the last decade.

I'm not saying I like the current combat system all that well. I definitely liked the concept of the HnH combat system better, but I'm not sure HnH was any better because for all the potential depth, the actual usage was still fairly limited. (It was definitely deeper than Salem is now, though.) I think a happy blend of the two would be great as the HnH system was definitely lacking in some (several) places.

you say it sucks but like hnh better and want parts of hnh combat?

[Dallane]

l2f

Current fight system is awesome all we need is more skills and weapon types. HnH combat system was stupid luck&lag based! And some people say they want realism, what is real in punching guy with armor and making tons of dmg if he is running?

I do know how to fight and it still blows ass lol

More skills and weapons would be awesome but won't solve the problem of running in circles until someone can land a hit if the other screws up

[Zeronine]

Please dont misunderstand, I wasnt trying to force haven's combat system through here, I was merely asking for a much deeper combat system so that those of us that play MMO's on the pure basis of fighting other people and challenging ourselves might actually come to enjoy this game.

It'd be both stupid and cumbersome to directly integrate the haven system into this game, but I still do believe Jorbtar made a lot of really good implementations in it, which can be learned from, the current control scheme and stats just doesnt support "action based combat" hte way Darnok wants it, or you talk about properly MagicMan, at least not the way I see it from personal experience.

Untill combat is revamped in such a way it's both deep, requires a lot of skill, but is also both fun and not tedious as all hell to participate in, all deaths we'll see will be from summonings, unfortunately.

edit: Commas.

[dageir]

I say make the fighting a mini game where you fight in Pirates! style combat. You get the option to fire your gun first for some trivial damage and then let the fencing commence. (Or knuckle fight, or sword versus knuckles.)

[Kurundo]

As much as I did like the combat system in Haven, I do not think Salem needs to be "H&H IN THREE DEE". Perhaps there could be some lock on charge attacks that outrun the sprint speed but can be stopped by clipping and if they do hit they could perhaps do damage to Phlegm or disable faster running abilities. I have not gotten to do much fighting in Salem, but if the problem being that the movement allows you to step outside of attack boxes too easily.... then the things we should fix are likely counters to fleeing (perhaps risky gambits to not make everything in favor of aggressors) and perhaps faster wind-ups on attacks and maybe even the ability to still move in a line while throwing a haymaker or whatever attack.

[darnokpl]

l2f

Current fight system is awesome all we need is more skills and weapon types. HnH combat system was stupid luck&lag based! And some people say they want realism, what is real in punching guy with armor and making tons of dmg if he is running?

I do know how to fight and it still blows ass lol

More skills and weapons would be awesome but won't solve the problem of running in circles until someone can land a hit if the other screws up

But this is almost same as in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZSFpeLEAok
Why do you want to change it?
It is just fight style call it ninja/dodgy with light armour it should be always possible... we just need medium and heavy armours to make fighters slower, but with much better dmg absorption, so light and fast opponent will lose most of his phlegm and yb if he wants to run and thrust.

Additional nice thing would be to make more imbalance for every skill you used during run-mode, it would make running in circles much harder (every miss in run-mode would add 20% imblance and problem solved?).

[Zeronine]

Well, a lot of arguments can be made about how you could make running away harder and what not for the current system, I just feel a lack of more hardcore RPG elements will make the system not only lack depth but also be limited to odd dancing around pretty much no matter the changes.

As an example in the haven system, the guy who ran the furthest was always the guy carrying the highest amount of high quality water, so when you prepared yourself for battle that was that to pay heed to. The system generally rewarded you being really damn good as well though, with moves like stomp and what not I feel a high humour character will beat one with say half his humours 90% of the time unless the high humour player is extremely bad. (is it humour or humor? stupid Brits!)

It should generally mix with the stat systems added through the socket mechanic and generally make combat something you wanna delve into and learn, I sincerely believe we'll have less issues of "Imbalance" in the current game world if combat was enjoyable enough for a large portion of people to dabble in it.

There's always gonna be masters, who're gonna wreck everyone they meet, which is a big part of making these sandbox MMO's so awesome, but it feels like the whole warrior culture is being severely diminished by the current system.
Anyone who's played haven and actually bothered to learn how to fight can probably agree to this, and while I doubt this discussion would result in any kind of change from Jorbtar's side, I feel it's good to let them know they did it right the first time, and that they don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel for this game to succeed combat-wise.

-Zero

[Potjeh]

I can't say I'm happy with Salem's combat either, mostly because it's too easy to dodge a strike.

[MagicManICT]

HnH isn't a typical "RPG" combat system. Look to WoW and the other games for that. HnH is a move/counter system that's supposed to be a bit like rock-paper-scissors, but with more moves and counters.

When someone says "RPG" elements, I think of games like D&D, etc.--lots of numbers to consider, but overall a miniatures game that discourages moving around (due to strikes of opportunity, reduced hit chances, etc.)--or I think of MMORPG systems like EQ, WoW, and descendants. In PvE, you just stand toe-to-toe with the mob and use a myriad of skills and attacks until successful, moving only to avoid special attacks that would otherwise end the fight faster. In PvP, it's just trying to spin and run to avoid being hit and to hit while spamming keys. There really is no move/counter to any of this.

[Zeronine]

Apologies if I got my terms wrong then Magic, what I meant overall was just to show a heavy preference for the haven system, since Salem is still built on a lot of concepts somewhat aching to haven I'm not sure the translation would be that rough either. These are still just my 2 cents though discussion is nice, keep it up gentlemen.