Just to much....CRAFTING!

[darnokpl]

Have to address a few things here:

Yeah, crafting here is pretty much identical to HnH. The difference is in getting the materials, and, as I think it was Coles that pointed it out, the constant quality grind encouraging you to rebuild nearly everything. To note, I do like the garden pots cutting down the need to forage as much. I'd like to see more things like this. Otherwise, some of the industries are just entirely too slow for the amount of materials produced.

While, in theory, quality isn't capped in HnH, it becomes so slow and the gains so marginal, you could say the cap was around 250. I'm not sure if anyone has ever hit this number on anything, anyway.

Yes few people had 250+ q

As for purity vs quality, having 100% purity of crops for farmer is boring, because you can only make more farms and produce more food, but then you will just burn out.

On other hand now large and small factions are more equal when they both reach 100% purity in HnH small factions never got chance to have same quality crops like large. And factions that wanted to be number one in crops quality were botting as hell to keep it grow! in Salem you need to focus in purity for some amount of time.

Both purity and quality got pros and cons :/
I think purity in crops should be capped by character profs and should be much slower that it is now, seen someone had 100% cereal in 2-3 weeks on roanoke!
Imho purity jumps shouldn't be random!!! It should be slow progress and more s&c you have faster it goes and different crops types should have different speeds.
Like when you get 100s&c you get 50% purity cap for all crops and progress:
cereal +0.5% per harvest
cabbage and pumpkin +0.3%
corn +0.4%
cotton 0.6%
Same with gardening higher profs higher bonus and higher cap.

Same with food, we should have cap for our cooks, so even if you have 100% purity materials noob character won't make 100% food from it.
Baking should require different set of profs, same for salads, meats etc etc different, of course base prof should be pots&pans, but then for each food-group-in-menu should be one more prof to slow production of high purity food. Like to make better food with meat you need high pot&pans and hunter&gathering, for baking food p&p and sugar&spice, for salads p&p and s&c. It should give purpose in character development to many people around here.

I'm going to (shock!) agree with Darworth here. Loved the addition of the mining system in w4 of HnH. I had some defense designs I just never got around to creating and would have loved to seen how they worked out.

Yeah I am whining about mining since for months
If I would ever be miner I want to MINE not turn-on-zombi-mode and walk!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm of the belief that purities got out of hand during earlier testing. Without a world reset, there's really not much to be done at this point, and I don't think this one thing is worth the huge headache of a world restart, especially now that many people have invested actual cash into the game and would create a headache with making sure they had proper funds/items returned to them.

Also, I'm of the opinion that 90%+ should be highly improbable for anyone to reach. 100% should be near impossible. In theory, one could find a 100% pure mine and it'll produce the same thing forever. In reality, there should be some sort of refining process to get this number up similar to the way you could randomly get steel at a higher quality by constantly reworking the wrought iron.

I would love to have wipe for all servers, but in month or two, not right now.

I like your idea of reworking iron, this is really needed here and again I would add that it should depend on profs.
Right now every noob can buy 30% rod and walk around after that he will break iron prices selling good purity lockets cheaper than other people who started from 0%.

[Droj]

Right now every noob can buy 30% rod and walk around after that he will break iron prices selling good purity lockets cheaper than other people who started from 0%.

You mean like yourself.

[Vibe]

I think there was just a lot more to do and strive for in H&H, simply put. Here it's just raising your crop purity and feeding your chars.

[datass]

I think there was just a lot more to do and strive for in H&H, simply put. Here it's just raising your crop purity and feeding your chars.

sometimes you can give your crops to others.

[slipper]

i enjoyed havens mining system a lot with the multiple layers and what not, added a whole new depth to the game. would be nice if something similar was put it in here at some point and with it underground building restrictions lifted.

[Glennfinnan]

What Darwoth said. Here it pretty much starts with a walking simulator and transforms into braziers/lockets spam.
I doubt that anyone enjoys looking for higher purity metal the way it is now. Metal industry is a forgotten child even though the statement back from July last year says it is one of the priorities.

[colesie]

While, in theory, quality isn't capped in HnH, it becomes so slow and the gains so marginal, you could say the cap was around 250. I'm not sure if anyone has ever hit this number on anything, anyway.

Carrot quality is over 1000, cutthroat quality is like 350+, all other crops are also very high. Armor class is around 1.9k and bees wax was around 700 last I was into it but it's likely over 1k by now.

[anfros]

I'd like to see a system with many more factors than we have now, this gives you the ability to disrupt other factions' industries. For example crop purity should not only depend on the seed purity, but also on the fields purity. I also think it would be more fun if we had a economy more based around purification, for example I don't think there ever should be a purity lime node, however I think there should be a system to purify the lime the you mine, so you have to choose between producing large amounts of low quality products or low amounts of high quality stuff.

From my point of view purity shouldn't be something static it should be something that you have to actively work on, this way a developed base is not only valuable because of it's defenses but because of the quality of the smelters/fields/whatever. And should you choose to ignore a specific industry for a while it's purity should decrease.

Another thing is that many production trees are both to short and a little too narrow, it would be very nice if there where more than one way to achieve the same thing for example coal mines as well as the charcoal we have today. Also no one would ever make a sword from iron in the 17th century, swords are made from steel, and steel is made from iron, I think a crafting system with more depth like this would be much more fun to play with.

Anther thing I do hope will be implemented eventually is scaled buildings, if I'm running a major smelting op I do not want to have 10 small smelters but 5 large ones, they shouldn't provide much of a yield bonus but it would be a lot less tedious to manage a smaller amount of smelters. This could also work for field and other such things.

There is a lot of thing that could be made differently in the game, but I think the biggest problem atm is scale.

[Gacrux]

I think most people who say HnH and Salem have equal footing in crafting haven't played Haven a lot, or frankly never played it or are making gregarious judgments. The level of immersion the crafting haven had was amazing. I frankly hope Jorb and Loftar look back on Haven's elements and use those very things to build off of for Salem. The reason people played haven was because of the linear growth, the idea of getting better and better. People play games to feel this, a sense of progress I think the devs made a mistake in stifling this with a 100% purity cap this plateau where everyone has the 100% purity of every alchemic element on their crops to build their character and then.. that's it.

And on a similar note haven structures/ items had more of a sense of permanence while Salem's, from just the way that things can be destroyed, seem to be very ethereal. before the recent hp/soak buff on res objects, if you were raided by chief or some other "grief-worthy" faction, you could consider your entire base to be gone. While haven if you were raided they were limited to how much they could take and defending your base felt more secure even with just palisades.

I personally love/hate the purity system simply because its plateau effect, but if it is reviewed and re-looked at by Jorbtar it has the potential to be a usable concept.

I hope the devs are looking at this a worthwhile conversation.

[Niding2]

but the difference is that while Salem allows you to fight back and, with luck / enemy lag / divine intervention, you're able to drop enemy characters with ten times your humours, while H&H, your attacks would simply not do damage, due to the way quality scaled with armour / weapons.

I facepalmed pretty hard at this. It's the other way around entirely. In haven you can have 2ua and 2 mc and take down someone with 2000 UA if you sting them moving. Martial slider, q90+ soldier's sword, 300 str (barb slider) and you're golden. In salem if your Phl is lower you simple run until your phl is out and then you die due to the drop in speed. You can maneuver out of hits but it's inevitable because you simply will not get away. In Salem if your yb runs out, you're screwed. You can't hit back for enough to take them down after a while. Salem combat does not favor the underdog in any way, shape, or form. In Haven just a day or two ago, I beat someone with 125 unarmed combat while I only had 2 ua and 3 MC, movement combat kept it interesting and made it so that the underdog had a chance, and combat tactics actually meant something.

You seemed to have missed the main point I was making. Sure, if you had access to tier 3 (q90) or higher gear, you'd be able to fight back since the next few tiers scaled pretty dramatically, quality-wise. Getting a t3 weapon, however, was an impossibility in itself for most part of the gaming base. I suppose you're right that you didn't need to develop a character much to fight, yes, since you didn't really need much Melee / UA to use Sting, but on the other side - even with a very developed character, with high martial stats and high strenght, you wouldn't even be able to lower the durability of the armor of your enemy WITHOUT the t3 weapon. Too much power lied in the quality of the armor / weapon, which was a problem as getting to that quality level was linked purely to the world nodes.

No high nodes, no high quality stuff. No high quality, stuff, no chance of even fighting back. That's the part I don't want - gear rendering any and all character growth irrelevant.