Conjecture regarding governance

[nexustrimean]

Procne enjoyed the luxuries of an unraided base because the Tribe killed all Criminals on this server. He most certainly would have been found, raided, and most likely killed if were not so vigilant in our justice keeping. However, because he did not see a scent at his place, and therefore, a DIRECT result of our justice he assumes that he has not indeed benefited from the Tribe.

If this were true then he would be in no danger of being raided, yet he still is because you are here, you haven't Driven off all the raiders, theres still one group left. You.
You claim we are benefiting from the treaty by being safe, yet, we aren't safe at all.
The economy is depressed because you control it, So thats no benefit to me either.

I remember the chief killing a man for hoarding Tumbleweeds, before there ever was a treaty, you are nothing more that a raider trying to justify your extortion racket.

[Mushibag]

Im getting tired of all this bickering. Why dont you that oppose the Chief try to talk to each other and organize an opposition instead of chatting in the forums. I on the other hand know my limitations and wont oppose anyone.

These things happen behind the scenes. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. We are allowed to chat in the forums, while also chatting elsewhere.

[Ass_Kraken]

As for killing for giggles... IT IS FRAKING OPEN PVP PERMA DEATH GAME WHERE KILLING OTHER PEOPLE MAKES YOU FEEL FRAKING IMPORTANT AND POWERFUL!!!

Yep, but the people who hide behind reasons when it is in fact for shiggles are just annoying.

[CharlesM]

I wish that people would range and kill all criminals regardless of who they were, without having to pay a tax for it. But this is not a perfect world. Ultimately the tribe ends up acting as a police force: We pay taxes to maintain the tribe (police) and they in turn protect and serve us.

I wish I didn't have to pay anything, but as the OP said, he pays his tax and nothig is really all that bad. In this game where there is permadeath and peple do kill for fun, I'd rather have the insurance which gives me my items (and more!) back when I die than none at all.

[Kiturien]

First of all, thanks for the thread! It brings up a relevant issue since there is indeed an attempt at law and order going on on the plymouth server.

Personally I would consider the following two points a big improvement to the self-constituted ruling collaboration, known as the MM tribe, albeit slightly utopian (not as much as a proper uncorrupt government though):

- Roads with signs.

Some sort of demonstration that there is in fact a ruling group of people who provide for those that abide their rules. They could lead to MM tribe designated outpost towns, or just hubs of signs where people could report in daily hustle and bustle - meetingplaces for peaceful locals to be precise. I understand that the game mechanics, allowing porting to Boston removes the incentive for people to build roads and meet their neighbours. It eliminates the drive to provide any sort of infrastructure (as I assume the tribe shares some master-map and dont need/want roads themselves)

- Limitation of the tribes "property"

As I assume the tribe would no doubt make sure to claim more than enough land, this would provide players who are willing to take the risk with somewhere to settle and those who wish for protection could settle in the lands of the tribe. I know full well that the raiders you should look out for beyond the border mainly would be bored tribespeople (creating an incentive for people to live in their lands instead of your own). This not only gives the tribe easier control of the lands, it also creates a more justified boundary of where you "can" and "cannot" settle without paying the tax - as opposed to "anywhere you wont get found" and "everywhere". As for marking of the territory, pavement or makeshift fences along with a few signs would do.

These two would demonstrate to the benevolent treatypayers that there is indeed a ruling class and that they will either tax you to live in their lands or hunt you down in their outskirt huntinggrounds (where you are free to stay).
I would like to end off with that the taxes as mentioned are indeed very affordable, to me it's more the fact that you killed me once for giggles (no chat at all), then later ransacked a good 2-5k silver worth of property and torched most my lands - THEN posted a sign informing me of your benevolent government allowing free stay for a mere 188silver each month. This makes it seem much less a government than a rag-tag organized crimesyndicate . Governments (even dictatorships) tend to clearly inform you you need to pay tax and dont brutally murder you until you stroke them the wrong way. Nothing in the game shows your presence aside from you raiding your own lands.

Needless to say though, most of the way things work is fully the cause of the game-mechanics at hand.
- Easy-peasy portalling to serverwide-town (controlled by MMtribe)
- Lack of possibility to construct your own stalls
- Clear benefit in hiding behind a relatively small BUT fully selfsufficient fortress rather than relatively open towns and a need for collaboration.

In addition:
- Signs at the exits of boston should inform of this law of the land
- The local hubs could be used for an offline method of taxcollection (assigning pclaims in a townhub (possibly having facilities provided by MM tribe, paid for by the people))

The optimal situation is the one outlined in Procnes first post on page 1, but that is inconceiveable. I do not expect any of these personal fantasies to come into fruition either, as that would actually require the governing faction to do great deals of work in shaping salem into a nation rather than a bundle of clusters ruled by fear of the overlords. Humans prefer easy =)

To all a good day,
Kiturien

[Mereni]

Actually, the Tribe has made attempts at roads and signs, but they are always quickly destroyed by others.

There is also the Reservation on the SW Boston border. Meant to be a newbie starter town, they do maintain boxes, sawbuck, and windmills, plus a number of leantos. It's at least some basic stuff to get a newbie going. Other things get built there, but are often destroyed by griefers. For example, when I was there, there was a smelter and ore boulders frequently brought out of the mine, but the smelter was since destroyed.

[Kiturien]

Actually, the Tribe has made attempts at roads and signs, but they are always quickly destroyed by others.

There is also the Reservation on the SW Boston border. Meant to be a newbie starter town, they do maintain boxes, sawbuck, and windmills, plus a number of leantos. It's at least some basic stuff to get a newbie going. Other things get built there, but are often destroyed by griefers. For example, when I was there, there was a smelter and ore boulders frequently brought out of the mine, but the smelter was since destroyed.

YAY! something new has been learned!
:/ seems the tribe is facing more than a few dissidents then :/

[Dallane]

Actually, the Tribe has made attempts at roads and signs, but they are always quickly destroyed by others.

There is also the Reservation on the SW Boston border. Meant to be a newbie starter town, they do maintain boxes, sawbuck, and windmills, plus a number of leantos. It's at least some basic stuff to get a newbie going. Other things get built there, but are often destroyed by griefers. For example, when I was there, there was a smelter and ore boulders frequently brought out of the mine, but the smelter was since destroyed.

YAY! something new has been learned!
:/ seems the tribe is facing more than a few dissidents then :/

grats on finishing your 1st vision quest

[Tylan]

Good stuff

I'd personally like to see a lot of that too, but I do know that the Tribe has tried things like this, as Mereni said. I also find your idea about dividing the server into a Tribe owned area and not interesting, but I don't think it would diminish their stranglehold on the economy in its present state. While I'm not arguing for the existance of a Utopia, so long as the Tribe doesn't limit intended game features without some sort of achievable payment, if any, I just can't see the harm.

I am sorry that you were targeted, though, and congrats for not quitting. Given the evolution of the Chief's mantra, it may be that changes are in store for the future. In the meantime, it may be our job to evaluate the situation and determine if it's prudent to go with the flow or to attempt to buck the system and either create a rival governing force on Plymouth or another server. Personally, I don't see enough reason to buck.

Also

grats on finishing your 1st vision quest

[clouddog]

How do you define "own" when saying MM owns the server?
There is alot of players stronger that could kill MM.
Why don't they "unite" or go aginst the tribe and blablabla?
its like all other games, u are doing your own thing alone/in a group and Aslong as noone mess with you
there is no true reason to help the guy far east or the guy 25 minutes west of u that u never met even if u know they will eventually come to u to do the same thing.
it might not be the right decision but thats just how it works most of the time.
Untill you are affected yourself by MM /someone else by being raided/killed or whatever you usally continue doing your own thing.
When they stop killing random alts and noobs and starts to piss ppl off that actually know how to play the game thats when players will unite for a common goal.