Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Ass_Kraken » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:38 am

EnderWiggin wrote:I have spoken with loftar about how slotting works, and that's what I know now:
Difficulty numbers show chance to fail.
If you do not have any matched profs in clothing and artifice, then maximum number is used, otherwise number in between them is used.
First, you need to calculate Effective Matched Proficiency - it is square root of sum of squares of your proficiency values of matched proficiencies in clothing and artifice - SQRT(Pr1^2 + Pr2^2 + ... + Prn^2).
Then for each 50 of EMP you divide distance from bigger difficulty number to lower by 2. Haven't yet figured what real formula would be, but with 50 EMP your chance to fail is right in the middle of the range, with 100 - 0.75 from bigger to lower. And I am not yet sure if difficulty on clothing and on artifice add up, or roll separately.


I decided to (poorly) write a (cluttered) java file using the things ender found. Here's the code, just use a java compiler, I used Dr. Java. I hope someone with more java experience will rewrite this as it's really long and cluttered because I really scrubbed it out to the max. It'd also be nice if it was an application of sorts, so compiling isn't necessary, I don't have experience with that stuff.

Code: Select all
import java.util.Scanner;

public class artificeCalculate{
  public static void main(String[] args){
    int AC = 0;
    int CD = 0;
    int FaW = 0;
    int FrW = 0;
    int HN = 0;
    int HG = 0;
    int LL = 0;
    int MM = 0;
    int PP = 0;
    int SE = 0;
    int SC = 0;
    int SS = 0;
    int TN = 0;
    int NP = 0;
    int PrP = 0;
    Scanner kbd = new Scanner(System.in);
    //Ask user for how many proficiencies match
    System.out.print("How many proficiencies match artifice and equip? ");
    int count = kbd.nextInt();
    if (count < -1 || count > 15){
      System.out.println("Error: Invalid Amount");
    }
    else{
      for(int subCount = 0; count > subCount; subCount++){
        System.out.println("Proficiency Level #" + (subCount + 1) + "? ");
        if(subCount == 0){
        AC += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 1){
          CD += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 2){
          FaW += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 3){
          FrW += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 4){
          HN += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 5){
          HG += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 6){
          LL += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 7){
          MM += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 8){
          PP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 9){
          SE += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 10){
          SC += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 11){
          SS += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 12){
          TN += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 13){
          NP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 14){
          PrP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else{}
      }
      int EMPunroot = AC*AC + CD*CD + FaW*FaW + FrW*FrW + HN*HN + HG*HG + LL*LL + MM*MM + PP*PP + SE*SE + SC*SC + SS*SS + TN*TN + NP*NP + PrP*PrP;
      double EMP = Math.sqrt(EMPunroot);
      System.out.print("Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2? ");
      int diff2 = kbd.nextInt();
      System.out.print("Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 1? ");
      int diff1 = kbd.nextInt();
      double delta = (diff2 - diff1);
      while(EMP >= 50){
        delta /=2;
        EMP -= 50;
      }
      double diff3 = diff1 + delta;
      System.out.println("Difficulty Range: " + diff3 + " to " + diff1 + ".0");
    }
  }
}

This is assuming a few things:
1. If you hit 50 EMP it divides by 2, but if you hit 49 it dosen't divide by anything.
2. When it divides the distance from the bigger number to the lower, it is anchored at the lower end of the spectrum instead of closing in on the center.

Here's an example:

Let's look at Smooth Stone success rate slotting on a Conquistador Helmet, with 49 Frontier and Wilderness skill and 56 Mines and Mountains.

Image Image
First thing we see is the proficiency icons. They both have Frontier & Wilderness, and Mines & Mountains. The helmet has Cloak & Dagger, but Smooth stone dosen't, so it dosen't count. This means we have 2 Proficiency Matches, Faith&W and M&M.

The first line from the script is "How many proficiencies match artifice and equip?", so we enter 2.

Next line is "Proficiency Level #1?", so we take our proficiency, F&W and put in 49.
Next line is "Proficiency Level #2?", so we take our next proficiency, M&M and put in 56. We could have done M&M first, and then F&W, the script dosen't care about order.

If we had entered 3 for the first line we would have "Proficiency Level #3", but Smooth Stone dosen't have the Helmet's C&D icon so we don't.

Next line is "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2?" Since we're looking at Smooth Stone we look at it. The higher difficulty is Difficulty 2. We enter 65.

Next line is "Artifice/Equipment Difficult 1?" The lower one is Difficulty 1. We enter 25.

Image

And then we get the success chance for smooth stone, 45.0 to 25.0. Note, this isn't the final one, but until we get more info this is as far as we can get. We calculated success rate with 49 and 56 profs for Smooth Stone and can calculate Conquistador Helmet's rate the same way (It's 39.5 to 35.0 for those curious), but we don't know how in the end it works. Do they have seperate rolls and if either fails the whole thing fails? Do they average together and then have a single roll? We don't know.

This is how this test should look in the end.
Image
Image
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby robert » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:02 am

Gacrux wrote:
robert wrote:toon


tweenprinc3ss wrote:toons


Not to blatantly derail such an "engaging" conversation but.... this word being used to as a reference to your character is kinda strange to me as I've only hear wow spergs refer to their character's as such.


that's all continue. :D


lol please dont lump me under those MMO rejects.. iv been using the term toon for 3d avatars since the early-mid 90s :P if anything wowtards took it from the EQ era players :lol:
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Mereni » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:02 am

I don't recall the word 'toon' ever being used in EQ.

But getting back on the topic, I still don't understand the artifice difficulty. Does no one understand it, then? What I'm getting is that it matters a lot if your artifice proficiencies match your clothing ones, because if they don't, you automatically get the least chance of success? So maybe the admiral's jacket won't be so popular for it's five slots if it's hard to match it? And lower numbers in the ranges have a better chance of success? And having a higher level proficiency matching the thing you're trying to slot helps you roll a lower number?
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby jorb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:12 am

JinxDevona wrote:I just think it's a bit lacking when there is only one feral item


Good thing that there are more than one, then. ^^
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Jalpha » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:18 am

Professor Gu Zhongmao wrote:These projects are beautiful to scientists, but nightmarish to engineers
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Bechorath » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:04 pm

Ass_Kraken wrote:
EnderWiggin wrote:I have spoken with loftar about how slotting works, and that's what I know now:
Difficulty numbers show chance to fail.
If you do not have any matched profs in clothing and artifice, then maximum number is used, otherwise number in between them is used.
First, you need to calculate Effective Matched Proficiency - it is square root of sum of squares of your proficiency values of matched proficiencies in clothing and artifice - SQRT(Pr1^2 + Pr2^2 + ... + Prn^2).
Then for each 50 of EMP you divide distance from bigger difficulty number to lower by 2. Haven't yet figured what real formula would be, but with 50 EMP your chance to fail is right in the middle of the range, with 100 - 0.75 from bigger to lower. And I am not yet sure if difficulty on clothing and on artifice add up, or roll separately.


I decided to (poorly) write a (cluttered) java file using the things ender found. Here's the code, just use a java compiler, I used Dr. Java. I hope someone with more java experience will rewrite this as it's really long and cluttered because I really scrubbed it out to the max. It'd also be nice if it was an application of sorts, so compiling isn't necessary, I don't have experience with that stuff.

Code: Select all
import java.util.Scanner;

public class artificeCalculate{
  public static void main(String[] args){
    int AC = 0;
    int CD = 0;
    int FaW = 0;
    int FrW = 0;
    int HN = 0;
    int HG = 0;
    int LL = 0;
    int MM = 0;
    int PP = 0;
    int SE = 0;
    int SC = 0;
    int SS = 0;
    int TN = 0;
    int NP = 0;
    int PrP = 0;
    Scanner kbd = new Scanner(System.in);
    //Ask user for how many proficiencies match
    System.out.print("How many proficiencies match artifice and equip? ");
    int count = kbd.nextInt();
    if (count < -1 || count > 15){
      System.out.println("Error: Invalid Amount");
    }
    else{
      for(int subCount = 0; count > subCount; subCount++){
        System.out.println("Proficiency Level #" + (subCount + 1) + "? ");
        if(subCount == 0){
        AC += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 1){
          CD += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 2){
          FaW += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 3){
          FrW += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 4){
          HN += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 5){
          HG += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 6){
          LL += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 7){
          MM += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 8){
          PP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 9){
          SE += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 10){
          SC += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 11){
          SS += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 12){
          TN += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 13){
          NP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else if (subCount == 14){
          PrP += kbd.nextInt();
        } else{}
      }
      int EMPunroot = AC*AC + CD*CD + FaW*FaW + FrW*FrW + HN*HN + HG*HG + LL*LL + MM*MM + PP*PP + SE*SE + SC*SC + SS*SS + TN*TN + NP*NP + PrP*PrP;
      double EMP = Math.sqrt(EMPunroot);
      System.out.print("Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2? ");
      int diff2 = kbd.nextInt();
      System.out.print("Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 1? ");
      int diff1 = kbd.nextInt();
      double delta = (diff2 - diff1);
      while(EMP >= 50){
        delta /=2;
        EMP -= 50;
      }
      double diff3 = diff1 + delta;
      System.out.println("Difficulty Range: " + diff3 + " to " + diff1 + ".0");
    }
  }
}

This is assuming a few things:
1. If you hit 50 EMP it divides by 2, but if you hit 49 it dosen't divide by anything.
2. When it divides the distance from the bigger number to the lower, it is anchored at the lower end of the spectrum instead of closing in on the center.

Here's an example:

Let's look at Smooth Stone success rate slotting on a Conquistador Helmet, with 49 Frontier and Wilderness skill and 56 Mines and Mountains.

Image Image
First thing we see is the proficiency icons. They both have Frontier & Wilderness, and Mines & Mountains. The helmet has Cloak & Dagger, but Smooth stone dosen't, so it dosen't count. This means we have 2 Proficiency Matches, Faith&W and M&M.

The first line from the script is "How many proficiencies match artifice and equip?", so we enter 2.

Next line is "Proficiency Level #1?", so we take our proficiency, F&W and put in 49.
Next line is "Proficiency Level #2?", so we take our next proficiency, M&M and put in 56. We could have done M&M first, and then F&W, the script dosen't care about order.

If we had entered 3 for the first line we would have "Proficiency Level #3", but Smooth Stone dosen't have the Helmet's C&D icon so we don't.

Next line is "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2?" Since we're looking at Smooth Stone we look at it. The higher difficulty is Difficulty 2. We enter 65.

Next line is "Artifice/Equipment Difficult 1?" The lower one is Difficulty 1. We enter 25.

Image

And then we get the success chance for smooth stone, 45.0 to 25.0. Note, this isn't the final one, but until we get more info this is as far as we can get. We calculated success rate with 49 and 56 profs for Smooth Stone and can calculate Conquistador Helmet's rate the same way (It's 39.5 to 35.0 for those curious), but we don't know how in the end it works. Do they have seperate rolls and if either fails the whole thing fails? Do they average together and then have a single roll? We don't know.

This is how this test should look in the end.
Image

So if I'm to understand the formula correctly...
This should be the simplified (incomplete) version, to the best of my ability:

Step 1: Find your "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 1" and "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2"
Pick one of the items (item to socket, or item to be socketed) to grab difficulty from - you'll need to repeat steps 1-4 for the other item for step 5
Difficulty 1, when looking at the item, is the second of the two numbers listed after difficulty.
Difficulty 2 is the first number listed, and should be larger than Difficulty 1.
Image
(I reuploaded this image courtesy of Ass_Kraken, since none of his show correctly for some reason)


Step 2: Find the Proficiencies that match on both the item being socketed and the piece of equipment itself.
Note what your level in the proficiencies that match.
Image


Step 3: The Effective Matched Proficiency (EMC)
EMC is only used if you have any proficiencies that match on both items. Otherwise, skip to step 4.
EMC = SQRT(Pr1^2 + Pr2^2 + ... + Prn^2)
Effective Matched Proficiency = Squareroot[(1st Matching Proficiency Level)^2 + (2nd Matching Proficiency Level)^2 + ... + (nth Matching Proficiency Level)^2]

Take the difference between Difficulty 2 and Difficulty 1 from Step 1, then divide it by 2 and subtract this from your Difficulty 2 the number of times your EMC can be divided by 50.
For EMC/50, round down - 99/50 would be the same as a 1 in this case
X = (D2 - D1)/2
Subtract X from your Difficulty 2, and this number will replace your old difficulty 2, and repeat the number of times your EMC can be divided by 50


Step 4: The Chances
Take the "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 1" and "Artifice/Equipment Difficulty 2" (or your new Difficulty 2 from Step 3, if you have one)
Your chances for that item will be "Difficulty 2" to "Difficulty 1", and note that this is your chance to FAIL - the smaller the number, the better.

Step 5: ???
This is the part everyone still seems to be trying to figure out - basically how the chances from one item meshes with the other item.

Step 6: Profit

I'm sure someone else can probably explain better than I can, but that's what I've understood and can explain so far.
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Kerryann » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:24 pm

Bechorath wrote:
Step 3: The Effective Matched Proficiency (EMC)
EMC is only used if you have any proficiencies that match on both items. Otherwise, skip to step 4.
EMC = SQRT(Pr1^2 + Pr2^2 + ... + Prn^2)
Effective Matched Proficiency = Squareroot[(1st Matching Proficiency Level)^2 + (2nd Matching Proficiency Level)^2 + ... + (nth Matching Proficiency Level)^2]

Take the difference between Difficulty 2 and Difficulty 1 from Step 1, then divide it by 2 and subtract this from your Difficulty 2 the number of times your EMC can be divided by 50.
For EMC/50, round down - 99/50 would be the same as a 1 in this case
X = (D2 - D1)/2
Subtract X from your Difficulty 2, and this number will replace your old difficulty 2, and repeat the number of times your EMC can be divided by 50




Are we seriously expected to do this?!

Image
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby EnderWiggin » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:06 pm

By the way, I think I've got formula for EMP difficulty shifting effect
Code: Select all
 k = 2^(-EMP/50)

Kerryann wrote:Are we seriously expected to do this?!
Nope. This just so you know that 1 matched skill of 100 is a bit better than two matched skills of 70.
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby Kerryann » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:30 pm

EnderWiggin wrote:By the way, I think I've got formula for EMP difficulty shifting effect
Code: Select all
 k = 2^(-EMP/50)

Kerryann wrote:Are we seriously expected to do this?!
Nope. This just so you know that 1 matched skill of 100 is a bit better than two matched skills of 70.


Ok, thanks.

I thought I had this yesterday but after two successes and now five failures! I obviously don't. Until someone can explain it in a language I can understand, (preferably one without numbers in it), lol, i'm not even bothering!

@ Jorb - Why on earth would you make it so complicated?

I can't afford to keep replacing broken clothes. :(
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Re: Game Development: Artifacts & Artifice

Postby World » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Nobleman’s Jacket - slot 4; difficulty 25 to 5; cloak, faith, law, sparks, perennial;
Embroidery - difficulty 25 to 15; arts, thread; common combat def +5, piercing def +15, impact def +10;
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