Discouraging newbies

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Discouraging newbies

Postby Novalight » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:36 am

Hey there, this is probably my first and last post.

Just want to ask the question to more established players. I'm a newb that started playing not long ago (2 weeks or so), and well, happens all my hard work got destroyed, stuff I gathered and kinda needed to advance. My little patch of land was still just starting to get developed, I just got a little wood fence (useless POS it seems), built up all the little things and expanded my little plot, drying hides, waiting for planks and stuff...and then poof, gone.

So, the question is. Why do players pick on newbs? I mean, if a person has stuff invested in the game, they're bound to play it more, even in the face of adversity, but if you don't have much invested and you get repeatedly ***** over you kinda say, meh, waste of time, I'll just play something else. True, I might not be a person suited for this game, but I do kinda like it, but sadly, the raiders are pretty stupid.... it's killing a cow versus milking it.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby Kaios » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:40 am

For some reason I have a feeling you already know the answer to this question.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby JinxDevona » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:12 am

Honestly... it's mostly noobs that pick on noobs. They hurry and get the criminal acts because they are too lazy to farm, cook, craft anything for themselves. So they pick on those weaker than them to get items easily. Yes, advanced criminals attack noobs as well for fun, but they usually don't repeat rob them if they rob them at all. They want the glory (and rewards) for taking down a big claim or village.

Advice, move to a more remote area. Sometimes it is better to be somewhat near to a smaller village than be in an area with lots of noobs.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby jwhitehorn » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:20 am

What server did this happen on?

If it happened on Plymouth then shame on you for not paying the treaty.

If it happened on Roanoke and Jamestown then shame on you for rolling the noob servers without justice and a formalized police system.

Either way what happened to you is your own fault.

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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby Zamte » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:07 am

It's been an issue I've watched and been waiting to see the response to for years. Ever since they announced a (more) commercial game, I wondered how it'd be handled.

While I enjoy the gameplay that seatribe games bring, the truth is that it's kind of extreme for this sort of title. We're not even out of beta yet and already the game is hostile to newer players.

Defenses are insufficient to stop the high bile characters that can exist, and are apparently not hard to replace with the right foundation. This leaves you with literal titans walking around, only opposed by other players with the same strengths. The rest are left feeling like terribly dubbed Japanese citizens caught in the middle of a Godzilla movie. You're entirely inconsequential to them, but they'll kill you or step on your house if it amuses them enough.

I like the idea of a game where a sort of player-created society exists where everyone can build and modify the land, and the game itself. I like a game where criminal acts are allowed, but also capable of being punished. It's an interesting experiment and an interesting game. It's just not like that when you have characters roaming around who can smash down any barrier you put in their way, shrug off braziers, and commit any crime they like because they know only a quarter percent of the rest of the playerbase can stop them.

To be clear, I have no problem with criminals, or raiders. I have no problem with dying, or having my stuff smashed. I just have a problem with the stats being so out of whack. Research, hard work, and infrastructure should make you better, and it should give you an edge, but it shouldn't make you unstoppable to anybody who hasn't done the same. If these trends continue, I'm going to feel terrible for new players in the future who are up against behemoths walking around with thousands of biles, when they're still starting with five.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby FutureForJames » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:16 am

Zamte wrote:It's been an issue I've watched and been waiting to see the response to for years. Ever since they announced a (more) commercial game, I wondered how it'd be handled.

While I enjoy the gameplay that seatribe games bring, the truth is that it's kind of extreme for this sort of title. We're not even out of beta yet and already the game is hostile to newer players.

Defenses are insufficient to stop the high bile characters that can exist, and are apparently not hard to replace with the right foundation. This leaves you with literal titans walking around, only opposed by other players with the same strengths. The rest are left feeling like terribly dubbed Japanese citizens caught in the middle of a Godzilla movie. You're entirely inconsequential to them, but they'll kill you or step on your house if it amuses them enough.

I like the idea of a game where a sort of player-created society exists where everyone can build and modify the land, and the game itself. I like a game where criminal acts are allowed, but also capable of being punished. It's an interesting experiment and an interesting game. It's just not like that when you have characters roaming around who can smash down any barrier you put in their way, shrug off braziers, and commit any crime they like because they know only a quarter percent of the rest of the playerbase can stop them.

To be clear, I have no problem with criminals, or raiders. I have no problem with dying, or having my stuff smashed. I just have a problem with the stats being so out of whack. Research, hard work, and infrastructure should make you better, and it should give you an edge, but it shouldn't make you unstoppable to anybody who hasn't done the same. If these trends continue, I'm going to feel terrible for new players in the future who are up against behemoths walking around with thousands of biles, when they're still starting with five.


I think people are entering the game with the wrong mindset then. You can't be new to the game and at the same time expect to be able to properly defend your buildings against veterans alone. However, the keywords are "buildings" and "alone". You should store all valuable items that you cannot afford to lose, on alts. Furthermore, once your walls have been broken and crimes have been made on your property, you should contact correct veterans to deal with the issue.

This is a game where you have to think a lot; mostly about what other players can do and how you can use them. It is not a mindless themepark where you can afk in the middle of a forest and expect to be okay.

There is though another path to go for the game as a whole, and that is by using the "zone"-idea from eve to give "newbies" rather protected but inefficient places to grow on.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby dageir » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:46 am

Since this game is perma-death most "hot shots" die sooner or later, be it from carelessness, treachery or technical issues. Some can rebuild fast because of good infrastructure and slaves. Some are humiliated and robbed of all earthly possesions and dignity..
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby Zamte » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:58 pm

FutureForJames wrote:
Zamte wrote:It's been an issue I've watched and been waiting to see the response to for years. Ever since they announced a (more) commercial game, I wondered how it'd be handled.

While I enjoy the gameplay that seatribe games bring, the truth is that it's kind of extreme for this sort of title. We're not even out of beta yet and already the game is hostile to newer players.

Defenses are insufficient to stop the high bile characters that can exist, and are apparently not hard to replace with the right foundation. This leaves you with literal titans walking around, only opposed by other players with the same strengths. The rest are left feeling like terribly dubbed Japanese citizens caught in the middle of a Godzilla movie. You're entirely inconsequential to them, but they'll kill you or step on your house if it amuses them enough.

I like the idea of a game where a sort of player-created society exists where everyone can build and modify the land, and the game itself. I like a game where criminal acts are allowed, but also capable of being punished. It's an interesting experiment and an interesting game. It's just not like that when you have characters roaming around who can smash down any barrier you put in their way, shrug off braziers, and commit any crime they like because they know only a quarter percent of the rest of the playerbase can stop them.

To be clear, I have no problem with criminals, or raiders. I have no problem with dying, or having my stuff smashed. I just have a problem with the stats being so out of whack. Research, hard work, and infrastructure should make you better, and it should give you an edge, but it shouldn't make you unstoppable to anybody who hasn't done the same. If these trends continue, I'm going to feel terrible for new players in the future who are up against behemoths walking around with thousands of biles, when they're still starting with five.


I think people are entering the game with the wrong mindset then. You can't be new to the game and at the same time expect to be able to properly defend your buildings against veterans alone. However, the keywords are "buildings" and "alone". You should store all valuable items that you cannot afford to lose, on alts. Furthermore, once your walls have been broken and crimes have been made on your property, you should contact correct veterans to deal with the issue.

This is a game where you have to think a lot; mostly about what other players can do and how you can use them. It is not a mindless themepark where you can afk in the middle of a forest and expect to be okay.

There is though another path to go for the game as a whole, and that is by using the "zone"-idea from eve to give "newbies" rather protected but inefficient places to grow on.


Oh I'm well aware of how the game plays. I played Haven & Hearth for multiple years. The key difference is though that in haven, things got limited a lot quicker. During world 3 we had rings get insane. People were running around with a few hundred points or better in their melee skill entirely from their rings. It was insane. World 4, they added a new ingredient to ring crafting which reined it in. Defensive capability and offensive capability have to grow at the same time, or else the game gets destructive.

Also, it has nothing to do with being alone. These characters have several hundred biles. Even with a dozen normal characters, you're going to be beating on them for ages before they go down, and they're capable of KOing you in a few attacks. Braziers don't matter, because of the way they scale down in individual damage as you add more, they're able to stand around for good periods of time without concern.

Offensive power has far surpassed defensive power, and it's caused a world where having high purity food and high biles means nobody can stop you without having the same. It's not easy for a new player to get the infrastructure going to develop those types of biles on their own, or even in a small group, because the main thing required is time. Time isn't something that's on your side with bored behemoths wandering around.

I think it was a mistake adding purity to foods before we had armor that actually soaks damage, real ranged weapons, and defenses which scale with purity.
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby robert » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:50 am

they can fix blazers by making their damage output scale up instead of down. there by making them more effective at defense as they should be. or very least set blazers to either output higher damage by default that scales down as more are added.

there's been suggestions of blood damage added to torch/blazers and such to help counter the immortal raiders with 100+ biles that tank 10+ blazers without bating an eye.

effectively right now the only people stopped by stone walls and torch/blazers are noob raiders who dont have anything but trespass and maybe waste. which average out at 50 biles, unfortunately any actual raider has high stat alts which makes all walls pointless.

while i hated the haven wall/siege mechanic and honestly i dont see any real difference in raids with/without rams or whatever. (as most people raided dont have combat skills to defend them selves anyway) id rather see a return of the brickwall system that prevented anything but a ram to destroy. as i dont feel its correct that a raider can smash anything with an axe and sword given the game mechanics state the shovel is what is designed for destroying stuff lol

dying and being attacked are part of the game, but as the game stands right now, there is no point playing it. or very least joining the game after its been running for about 1month after a wipe. as there will already be immortal players who will 1 hit pretty much anything. (its CS 1.6's autosniper rampages all over again)
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Re: Discouraging newbies

Postby staxjax » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:44 am

Unless you have been under maximum brazier fire yourself, then I don't really think you know what you are talking about. That **** hurts even if you have 100+ black bile.
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