Rebalancing defences

[Ornery]

In the case of Terribad there was a high-soak townhouse but it was 2 squares OFF the wall which mans the raider can breach the wall and walk AROUND it (which is actually what we did with Rocky). But if you were to place your structures FLUSH against the wall you would essentially gain a high-soak D item. Yeah it sucks to lose something like a Brick house but sucks more to lose all the leanto's so I think that is a very viable tactic.


Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

In this case, I didn't want to use a building as a wall, I was using walls as walls. The buildings as walls thing is something I haven't liked since pre-com when they were unbreakable and being used that way. The path around it was for refilling braziers from previous attempts on the Cove (and repairing walls during a raid attempt, but I derped hugely and didn't have the mats on hand inside).

[jwhitehorn]

I actually think you should be able to build a perfectly viable defense with the defensive tools available and not exploiting the game. Also no amount of static defenses can keep raiders at bay forever, and managing to hold off a raid for a night at the cost of loads of townhouses for example is not a good solution.

I agree with this statement too. The way I would define "balance' in the context of this game would be:

(The amount of time invested into wall/defense" = "The amount of time invested into a character) that is capable of destroying said base in 12 hours.

That is my personal perception of "Balance'. If you cannot afford to check your base twice a day (takes 30 seconds) then you unfortunately do not have the necessary commitment to ensure safety here. That doesn't mean that Salem is not for you but simply means that you take a risk each time you let your game sit for more than 12 hours at a time.

Currently a 300 to all character is still a very large investment. Your talking literally THOUSANDS of top-tier foods which is several rotations of several hundred fields.

So that all being said. let me once again simplify it all down.

In less time than it takes to make a 300 to all character I can make a 20X20 hermitage that cannot be burned down in any 12 hour period by a 300 to all Chief. (assuming no defender)

This is why I feel things are near balance. If you made it any EASIER to defend than it already is then the 300 to all character would be stopped by somebody with less effort. If you made it any EASIER to level characters then a base could be burned with less time invested in the char then it took defending the base.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Chiprel]

I would like to talk about defenses balance, purity&recipes balance(stuff will go full retardness mode with higher p water avaible) and all other flaved game concepts. The only thing is..why bother if jorb/loftar ain't even posting/commenting on those. I doubt that they even care enough to read all stuff you guys write. How many times we have to report broken game mechanics(hnh+salem) for them to change those? Atm. still noone bothered to make impenetrable vaults. But it's so ez that it's sad.

tl;dr
Don't waste your time posting, devs ain't reading. Only good way of contacting them is by pm/bugtracker and still you won't change their minds in 99% of cases

[gregl26]

An individual's philosophy of base design improves the more bases they build. I personally built maybe 7 bases between this and last world. I would get raided or burned down and then assess what my weakness was. I then implemented better ideas in my next base. It sucked but I always rebuilt better. A new player may build what they think is a great base but without any concept of the overall game mechanics it is in fact not a good base. I am up for some small changes to be made but they should be just that, small.

[Dallane]

. How many times we have to report broken game mechanics(hnh+salem) for them to change those? Atm. still noone bothered to make impenetrable vaults. But it's so ez that it's sad.

I doubt they would even nuke the place either. They certainly haven't yet at a few spots reported.

[darnokpl]

I agree with this statement too. The way I would define "balance' in the context of this game would be:

(The amount of time invested into wall/defense" = "The amount of time invested into a character) that is capable of destroying said base in 12 hours.

That is my personal perception of "Balance'. If you cannot afford to check your base twice a day (takes 30 seconds) then you unfortunately do not have the necessary commitment to ensure safety here. That doesn't mean that Salem is not for you but simply means that you take a risk each time you let your game sit for more than 12 hours at a time.

...

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

I can check my base 3 or 4 times per day, but I can't stay and defend it for few hours when I am 30-40 minutes before work, some people go to school, so they have same problem.

Most of us got game time frame like this: sleep, check salem, work/school, check salem, home, play salem, sleep...
so for people from different time zone won't be hard to hit at right time?

As for balance single character capable of destroying bases should be not supported or very hard to train.
You forget that raiding base you risk ONLY your combat alt, not your farmer, crops, industry or whole camp, like your victim is,
so destroying undefended bases should be much harder than building it.
If I am going to build base for 30h, then you should train your char for 60-90h to have chance to wipe whole camp alone in ~12h, because for me it would be game over and for you as raider little risk of losing alt that can be replaced because you have your camp intact!

Raiding parties should rely more on group-raiding than only single char stats, otherwise we can't defend camps against no-lifes like you.

[Bronsontucker]

I would like to see a pillage debuff that stacks every time you hit a building on somebody's claim and it reduces the amount of damage
you do to buildings/infrastructure severely and takes an hour to wear off. Maybe omit walls though.

[colesie]

I would like to talk about defenses balance, purity&recipes balance(stuff will go full retardness mode with higher p water avaible) and all other flaved game concepts. The only thing is..why bother if jorb/loftar ain't even posting/commenting on those. I doubt that they even care enough to read all stuff you guys write. How many times we have to report broken game mechanics(hnh+salem) for them to change those? Atm. still noone bothered to make impenetrable vaults. But it's so ez that it's sad.

tl;dr
Don't waste your time posting, devs ain't reading. Only good way of contacting them is by pm/bugtracker and still you won't change their minds in 99% of cases

y u lie?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2598

[Droj]

Jorbtar gave us nice things and means by which the destruction of these things are far greater and less time consuming of the effort put into their construction. Namely purity, something that has a massive impact on how a character progresses however it is currently something that also has no affect on craftable structures such as Walls and braziers by the resources put into them. Hopefully this will change and even out the playing field so no one method has a clear advantage over the other.

[TotalyMoo]

The one thing I feel is lacking in this discussion is an actual example of jwhitehorn's defenses. If it doesn't have to do with unbreakable objects or any other abuse I must say that I can't for the life of me figure out how they are supposed to look.