Humours Limit + Purity Unbalance

[JohnnyVonRoe]

Dear All,

My idea is to implement the limit for the humours in Salem. Let`s set the limit to 150-200. The Idea behind this is that the difference between player humours can be so high that it badly affect all game process... Ill explain:
1. There are several players in this game who have humours above 300 so if there gonna be PvP, winners will be people who been cooking a lot of high purity food and there will be no chance for lonely players to stand against them. In my perception in PvP the key element should be player`s ability of using combat skills,perks,etc.not ability of farming high purity food. (what is easy by spamming the same king of bake with your teammates)
2. When person with 300 humours+ raid your homestead you dont have any chance to save your goods from robbery. Even brazziers are not so effective in my perception.
3. At the moment there are no many creatures and bear is easy killable when your humours are above 45 but when new and more stronger creatures will be implemented, can you imagine the difference in difficulty of killing strongest creatures? One player with 300 humours will kill the strongest creature with 1-2 hits whereby person with 100-150 will suffer alot. It means that strongest person will become more rich and more stronger as he will be able to farm the strongest creatures in Salem and will get the best loot in game.
4. When there in no highest humour limit developers cant really set a difficulty of something to this game because range in humours is humongous and game aspects such as PvP, Crime or creature hunting become unbalanced where one person with 300+ humours is not just owerpovered he becomes a GOD of Salem...
So Having said that, in my opinion, if developers will implement Upper Humours Limit and will make it, lets say 200, admins will be able to implement into game: high tier defensive structures (such as brazziers) which will be able to defent from a raid (even from players with the highest humours - 200), developers will be able to implement bosses or very strong creatures which should be killed only in party (killing that creature will bring nice loot). Basically developers can implement really high challenging tasks for us in this game when they will know our maximum humours limit... but at the same time its not so easy to raise your humours to 150 or 200 so it would be a good uppel humour limit.
Thats what Ive been thinking most of the time ive been playing Salem. Salem Players please share your opinion about that as well
P.S (maybe im not correct about that) As I know mosty people with high humours consume food which been made on the fields using agriculture and than baking it... So I think its not fair that hunters who get and prepare meat cant make high putiry high-humour food but bakers can easely do it with 100% purity crops. So when baker make a 100% purity croissant, he can increase his yellow bile in gluttony mode by 150 just eating one of this croissant. Its complete unbalance... even now when high purity in agriculture can be achieved relatively easy.

[Kaol]

I prefer a soft cap to a hard cap. Anyone who pvps with a 300 humour character deserves to have an advantage. Also we are still missing the two strongest walls afaik, so raiding is not anywhere near its final state.

[Potjeh]

The core issue here is that it's too easy to spam high purity food.

[MagicManICT]

There is a max cap for humors. It's based on the mathematics of the gluttony mechanic. Also, higher humors have a diminishing return. While I'm not the type to go and figure all the ratios out, 100 is definitely not 10x better than 10. (This is taking into account the damage formula for attacking with ybile and destroying objects with phlegm. Study rates from more bbile also fall under this.)

Of course, just like in your typical tanking scenario, higher numbers will prove better and a few points can make a difference as this is usually linear. When it comes to raiding and being under the fire of the defenses, 150 BB is definitely 50% better than 100. The same goes for being in combat with another player when one person has 75 blood and the other has 150. A bit more skill is needed to survive that extra time for the extra hits needed to KO the other person.

Quite honestly, from my experience in Haven & Hearth, combat oriented players won't push their combat characters to the max as that's a lot of food and time for something that is probably going to die the first time they get outnumbered. Most players are going to find a "comfort zone" in what they can produce and what lets them play the game in an efficient manner. It will then be up to the individual player to decide to stay at this comfort zone or if they think they can live long enough to make the extra effort of the push worth the time and expense.

Also, this has been discussed before. It might be helpful if you look up the relevant discussions and incorporate what has been said into your ideas (linking to the posts would be nice, too).

The core issue here is that it's too easy to spam high purity food.

Agree. Maybe the purity increases need to be on a square root or natural logarithm curve, too.

[JohnnyVonRoe]

MagicManICT Yeah propably the putiry system should be improved because as I said 1 baked croassant 100% purity (baked food) gives around 150 yellow bile you can easely get your yellow bile to 500 ... but still how game developers will add new content like creatures which will carry good loot... as I said 1 person will have that loot with just 1 hit and another will suffer alot... or even (as folk said) there gonna be new types of fence implemented so based on what standarts developers will make defense capabilities of these fence types ? If devs will make it very hard to destroy new type of fence by 300+ humour player, that means 150 humour player can just forget about this aspect of game (breaking fence, crime etc,) If developers will make creatuers easy killable with 100 humour people or fences which will be easy destroyable with 100 humours too that means high humour people will again be OP as it is now... i think without limit there is really hard to balance this kind of things...

[Kaol]

I don't think there's anything wrong to be honest.

You can't make a croissant of 10 purity, it uses sugar and water.

500 biles isn't easy at all even if you are doing 150 yb per item it'll still take you 4 of that item per point. So 100 points is taking 400 high pura gluttony items. 100 points in all biles is taking 1600 high pura gluttony items.

In theory someone could build 20 layers of the best wall all around their village. In theory someone could bring 10 chars with 300 biles each to break through that wall. Both the wall and the characters would take insane amounts of work though. Those characters would wake up dead unless the owner has their own place with 20 walls.

I don't really like the idea of massive soak walls though, it means even if i piss off 100 active players, if they don't have high biles they can't do an ounce of damage to my wall.

[MagicManICT]

but still how game developers will add new content like creatures which will carry good loot...

Creatures will never carry loot if Haven is any indication (in the traditional "this mob dropped epic lewts!!") At best, they'll have some "healthier" meats on them and maybe a few special Inspirationals that can rarely be found on the corpse or crafted from corpse parts (such as hides or skulls).

Let's fix the parts of the game that need balancing first before screwing with something that may not even be an issue afterwards. Remember, this game is still in development. You bring a very important point to discussion, but an artificial cap is neither the best nor only fix, just the easy (lazy, in my opinion) one.

[G1real]

but still how game developers will add new content like creatures which will carry good loot...

Creatures will never carry loot if Haven is any indication (in the traditional "this mob dropped epic lewts!!") At best, they'll have some "healthier" meats on them and maybe a few special Inspirationals that can rarely be found on the corpse or crafted from corpse parts (such as hides or skulls).

Let's fix the parts of the game that need balancing first before screwing with something that may not even be an issue afterwards. Remember, this game is still in development. You bring a very important point to discussion, but an artificial cap is neither the best nor only fix, just the easy (lazy, in my opinion) one.

I think you misunderstand the concept of loot and/or look too much at the bane of all MMOs, AKA World of Warcraft, to get its definition. Why can we not extract heart, toes, teeth, eyeballs, ears etc. from a bear?

[Dallane]

god this thread is by far one of the funniest and more misinformed.

my only comment on a cap is go ahead. the hardcore players you are worried about will hit the cap AND have more characters then you at said cap.

[MagicManICT]

I see a difference between "loot" and "craft materials", and I think it's a good distinction. If you want to make that definition that general, that's fine, as it does work. And I've been playing online RPGs for a lot longer than WoW. My time dates back about 20 years now. (Loved that Neverwinter Nights!!)

I've go no complaints with the "extras" from animals, and they might well pop up when witchcraft comes along. Since we have no newts, eye of hidebehind might be a necessary ingredient to a curse.

my only comment on a cap is go ahead. the hardcore players you are worried about will hit the cap AND have more characters then you at said cap.

Don't forget will still pwn you because of complete lack of experience.