Village Claim Vs Personal Claim

[Dallane]

I've been wondering why anyone should build a village claim and i really don't see a advantage to this.

I think the natural progression for a group of players starting is to obv make a camp that turns into a personal claim as they make/buy silver. After awhile they will grow into a village and with that we should have some sort of incentive to do this.

Having Both:
[*]Authority objects are able to be destroyed and you will be griefed eventually.
[*]You get a crime buff on people but that doesn't matter when they can kill authority objects and declaim you.
[*]Braziers use to act strange. I haven't raided a place with both in awhile so I'm not sure if they are still odd.

Vclaim Only:
[*]The only real advantage is for the chat channel and that goes out the window if your group uses skype or some other chat system.
[*]Can make your mark on the land with a town name
[*]People can walk up to your walls
[*]Need a extra layer of protection to get the initial crime buff compared to a pclaim. Walls or sign post. Without those invaders get a free broken wall

Pclaim Only:
[*]Tresspass!
[*]Can make a MASSIVE claim and force people to take a buff hit and with that a longer travel time to leave the claim from raiding.
[*]Cost around the same to upkeep/make as vclaim with pclaim being slightly less on upkeep.
[*]No name for you group unless you are announcing it all over the place.

Easy fix for abuse:
You can't stack the 2 claims

Ideas that could improve having a vclaim: Post anything you think might be nice to have for a advantage over a claim.
1. One way to fix this is at a certain point having a pclaim start costing some serious silver drain.
OR
Have a limit on how large a pclaim can be. It doesn't make sense to me for a pclaim to be > a vclaim.
2. Vclaims should force people to take a criminal buff.
3. Some sort of advantage similar to what has been posted in these threads
http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2416
http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1738
4. Maybe a warning system to alert people of criminal acts. Don't really need a chat alert or a global sound but a loud warning bell in the vclaim would work.
5. Giving extra permissions to villagers such as vandalism/theft should be added along with village titles that act like groups.
6. Town bells should not be destructible when they still have upkeep, much like a pclaim. The same goes for other authority objects.
7. - Extending pclaim on a vclaim should be done/need to be approved by the mayor, once the pclaim owner gives him that specific permission, since the mayor "owns" the vclaimed land

[Procne]

Couple of questions to make sure I understand currect system correctly:

- When you use vclaim to declaim overlapping pclaims, you pay silver not from your purse, but from the bell upkeep reserve? So if the plclaim is big then you have to build authority objects to increase bell's silver capacity?
- When you are a member of a village, and vclaim overlaps pclaim to which you have no permissions - do you still need criminal acts to enter this pclaim and interact with objects there? Do you still leave scents and suffer bb drain while you do so?
- Can you place bell on pclaimed land? Like you destroy someone's bell which is on his pclaim, and then place your own bell on that place?

[darnokpl]

Ideas that could improve having a vclaim: Post anything you think might be nice to have for a advantage over a claim.
1. One way to fix this is at a certain point having a pclaim start costing some serious silver drain.
OR
Have a limit on how large a pclaim can be. It doesn't make sense to me for a pclaim to be > a vclaim.
2. Vclaims should force people to take a criminal buff.
3. Some sort of advantage similar to what has been posted in these threads
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2416
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1738

1. Limit size imho or we get more posts why Salem is pay to win.
2. Yes please.
3. Can you quote from those threads, I am too lazy to read both?
4. Town bell should warning citizens when someone is on town claim (even if he is only walking, for 2500s and upkeep cost it is not much to ask),
5. pclaims silver drain should be lower when they are on town claim (why pay upkeep twice for same area?),

Couple of questions to make sure I understand currect system correctly:

- When you use vclaim to declaim overlapping pclaims, you pay silver not from your purse, but from the bell upkeep reserve? So if the plclaim is big then you have to build authority objects to increase bell's silver capacity?
- When you are a member of a village, and vclaim overlaps pclaim to which you have no permissions - do you still need criminal acts to enter this pclaim and interact with objects there? Do you still leave scents and suffer bb drain while you do so?
- Can you place bell on pclaimed land? Like you destroy someone's bell which is on his pclaim, and then place your own bell on that place?

- Yes,
- Yes,
- I don't know,

[Dallane]

Couple of questions to make sure I understand currect system correctly:

- When you use vclaim to declaim overlapping pclaims, you pay silver not from your purse, but from the bell upkeep reserve? So if the plclaim is big then you have to build authority objects to increase bell's silver capacity?

right.

- When you are a member of a village, and vclaim overlaps pclaim to which you have no permissions - do you still need criminal acts to enter this pclaim and interact with objects there? Do you still leave scents and suffer bb drain while you do so?

yes u need to xpass and will leave scents.

- Can you place bell on pclaimed land? Like you destroy someone's bell which is on his pclaim, and then place your own bell on that place?

[/quote]

I never did it so no idea. I don't think so but maybe someone who has done it should give their input

[Dallane]

YES! warning system. thats what i was forgetting

i'm not going to quote everything from those 2 threads, there are alot of great ideas for village and community building.

[Potjeh]

Even if you can't put a bell on pclaim you can still put it right next to it and declaim. And since bells are destructible, they really don't do anything to protect you from such a hostile takeover. So yeah, with the game mechanics working as they currently do, you can take over any property with sufficient silver, in next to no time because walls and braziers are a bad joke.

[Droj]

Town bells should not be destructible when they still have upkeep, much like a pclaim. The same goes for other authority objects. I don't understand why this isn't functional, otherwise what's the point of a vclaim?

And what is to stop a disgruntled villager from making a pclaim inside of the vclaim whilst you sleep and knock down a few walls crime-free for raiders to walk in?

Crime committed on both claims should have the same affect.

[Kaol]

How do plcaims interact with vclaims?

Is anybody allowed to put a pclaim down on vclaimed land?

Is it anybody? Nobody? Any Village member? Only the mayor?

[Potjeh]

Any village member.

[Droj]

Giving extra permissions to villagers such as vandalism/theft should be added along with village titles that act like groups.