milonti wrote:The problem is literally this example. On the PvP server, if someone does grief you in this manner (resources costs aside, ick) then you still have a choice of keeping your base. You can break those walls, most likely they wont even be easily claimed since your claim should be in the way.
On a PvE server, however, there is no way to deal with this problem. If someone cages you in, you're screwed. This is what people used to do in HnH if you left a wall partially built. They would finish the gate, pocket the key, and leave you to starve in your own base. It'd be even worse in a PvE Salem. You'd be required to start a completely new settlement.
It goes back to the dev thoughts on PvP. Any and all actions in a mutable, sandbox world are possibly offensive. Someone already mentioned cutting down trees. Whether you realized it or not, thats actually a major griefing tactic; it's resource deprivation. If someone just destroys all the forest around you in a couple screen radius, you now have to travel even farther to gather wood. A lot of times the griefers wont actually use the wood, they'll only destroy it.
PvP does offer some sense of defense from a griefer. You become your own judge, jury, and executioner. While yes, people can grief with PvP as well, its a much better defense than being able to do absolutely nothing. You can invoke your own form of banning or suspension by killing or knocking out another character.
Another important point is that this is a finite world. There are finite resources and finite space. If there is no competition, the game becomes stagnant. Someone needs a reason to keep increasing humors, to make better tools than his rivals. And you need a way to gather more resources. If theres no room left, how do new players get started? How do you keep progressing if theres no metal remaining in the world? Why bother even having a monetary system? The best tools and weapons will never be lost; the greatest craftsman will never lose his skill. Once everyone has a house and windmill, they'll leave because there's nothing left to do. PvP provides constant competition and an endgame goal - protect your wealth.
It would be interesting to see how Salem would go with a PvE server, I don't see the harm in putting up a fourth server with PvE mechanics, take a look at Wurm Online.
One thing to take note of is that an ability to implement infinite terrain generation so space becomes less of an issue, implement better mechanics for a PvE based world and perhaps flesh out PvE content like the darkness that might threaten players instead (this should be happening anyway, PvE server or no, you'll still have pacifists players on a PvP server) so it's actually an enjoyable experience.
Give the players the goal of fighting the environment, as player versus environment implies.
I can understand why people do not want to play PvP in a sandbox MMO(RPG), there's a high focus on time spend and preparations and less focus on individual skill - although the current combat system seems to imply some form of tactical/skill-based fighting that should definitely be fleshed out upon.
