Expedition 2 - <Name Pending>

[kabuto202]

Stocks is okayish. TBC is a retarded mechanic at least at how pathetically low the timer is for it.

I don't wanna get permakilled by some basement dwelling neckbeard, because god forbid I'm at work or asleep.


IMO TBC should work like this: Go to Boston, speak with NPC, pay some silver equivalent to what the cost is of TBC today. Next time both the plantiff and defended are online for more than 1 minute they both get a notification that in 5 mins TBC begins, you cannot logout after this notification has been received. Both then get teleported to a dock club style arena where an actual trial by combat can take place, instead of some scrub attacking an AFK avatar and/or 50 people coming in to gangbang someone they have a hate ***** for.

[Nikixos]

Stocks is okayish. TBC is a retarded mechanic at least at how pathetically low the timer is for it.

I don't wanna get permakilled by some basement dwelling neckbeard, because god forbid I'm at work or asleep.


IMO TBC should work like this: Go to Boston, speak with NPC, pay some silver equivalent to what the cost is of TBC today. Next time both the plantiff and defended are online for more than 1 minute they both get a notification that in 5 mins TBC begins, you cannot logout after this notification has been received. Both then get teleported to a dock club style arena where an actual trial by combat can take place, instead of some scrub attacking an AFK avatar and/or 50 people coming in to gangbang someone they have a hate ***** for.

Do you even know what are the odds for a crime alt and an accusator to be online at the same time, that's the main reason witchcraft is retarded and it's impossible to talk about it so no feedback can be made about it, stocks and tbc is mostly "fine" for providence where a noob can at least get some justice, but expeditions are supposed to be blood baths, not idiots crying for a bit of "fairness".

TBC and stocks for expeditions is a big no no.

[kabuto202]

Do you even know what are the odds for a crime alt and an accusator to be online at the same time

No, neither do you, and if you pretend otherwise you're full of ****. The "odds" are irrelevant, because the more a crime alt is used, the higher the probability is that they will log in at the same time that at least one person has an outstanding TBC for them.

And for the record, could you please link me the source of a dev saying or implying that the goal of expeditions was to make them bloodbaths?

[TotalyMeow]

Expeditions are supposed to be more high crime than Providence with raiding being easier and PvP being more common. We loosen the rules and add things like cannons so people who like to raid can have some fun and people who want to be carebears can stay on Providence. I'm not sure if anyone has actually used the word 'bloodbath' but it is really supposed to be more violent in keeping with the uncivilized and temporary nature of an expedition.

[Judaism]

Expeditions are supposed to be more high crime than Providence with raiding being easier and PvP being more common. We loosen the rules and add things like cannons so people who like to raid can have some fun and people who want to be carebears can stay on Providence. I'm not sure if anyone has actually used the word 'bloodbath' but it is really supposed to be more violent in keeping with the uncivilized and temporary nature of an expedition.

Yeah right, you added cannons to make raiding more fun. Just go home already, cannons are absolutely no fun at all and blast tru pclaims and bells in an instant, cannons probaly are as bad as TBC's and the stockades.

The game needs interaction with eachother, cannons had a 70 tile path and would fire after lit. It required nothing actively at all and made everything even more boring and would force you to patroll your base every 4 orso hours. In the contrary to actual raiding which still required a TBF and a 24 hour warning a cannon would just blew everything up in an instant, your definition of fun in a suposedly temporary and competitive server is very strange indeed.

[TotalyMeow]

Yeah right, you added cannons to make raiding more fun. Just go home already, cannons are absolutely no fun at all and blast tru pclaims and bells in an instant, cannons probaly are as bad as TBC's and the stockades.

Thats like saying we added a automatic tracking system on guns to gaurantee a targethit to make hunting in the wild more fun.

The current raiding rules aren't the ones I would have chosen, but it's a highly complex system and very difficult to balance. That's why we're planning on overhauling it again. You don't need to come here and be an ass about it, especially since you don't even have a clue yourself what a balanced system would look like.

Regardless of how Popham worked out (though it seems to have worked out pretty well for a real raider like Darwoth), I was talking about our intentions for expedition servers. More violent than Providence.

[Judaism]

The current raiding rules aren't the ones I would have chosen, but it's a highly complex system and very difficult to balance. That's why we're planning on overhauling it again. You don't need to come here and be an ass about it, especially since you don't even have a clue yourself what a balanced system would look like.

Regardless of how Popham worked out (though it seems to have worked out pretty well for a real raider like Darwoth), I was talking about our intentions for expedition servers. More violent than Providence.

No obviously I would have no clue myself how you guys envision a balanced system, I am not a mind-reader and I don't fully know which direction gets pushed towards. However the current system is far, far, far from the old Salem core values. You guys have completely thrown away the old perception on raiding which was far simpler in comparison. My perception on raiding would obviously bring us back to many old values, prio to take-over. Very few people complained about those raid mechanics, they held direct risks for raiders and I actually enjoyed them alot more.

I call that way more balanced, instead now we just have mechanics for incompetent players to bring justice upon criminals and it never was a proper justification for a change of mechanics like you guys did implement/change: TBF's TBC's, mortars, stockades, two new types of walls, new defences, high drainages, madness, soaks over the edge and hitpoints three times higher than any previous time in history.

Setting up some fortified area to make a TBC from sure is fun, do it on a matured town and hell you just have a gauranteed kill, its all silly long-range mechanics with little interaction.

Obviously Popham should be way more violent than Providence but that was not what JC said at the start, he didn't want to spoil the raid-feeling and made it significant easy. That probaly was due to the fact that he knew raiding on Providence would be exponentional more difficult over time and it was meant to replace it. Adding cannons which can be set from a distance, be fortified and require no active playing are most certainly far from my perception on ''fun''. In the end cannons actually made ''raiding'' as you call it extremely easy and very boring, especially on an inactive server. Simple lower soaks, weaker walls, removal of tbf's, weaker defensive structures would actually already be way better than mechanics like cannons.

[Darwoth]

the majority of the droolcups in this thread are nothing more than clownshoes that run around in a family value pack of retardation thus they.....

1> hate cannons because it allows small groups to compete, without them there would be no way a small to moderate raid force would ever get into their town of 60 (yes thats how many they had last time ) people. cannons are an essential part of expeditions and should remain unchanged unless to remove the nerf from them. i would also point out that judaism has zero clue how cannons even work, he last posted some nonsense about 800 cloak giving you a miniscule timer (nope) and just now a 70 tile range (again, nope)

2> hate stocks because it allows for newbs to have some form of getback when they would otherwise have none and allows pvp groups to tactically remove one of them from the fight for a few hours. stocks are also very very easily countered for those who are not lazy and incompetent and players in the big zerg groups are both which is why they play in said big groups in the first place. furthermore stocks are an essential part of the expedition as it determines the next round of bonus whip rewards. given the easy counter, essential scoreboard factor and the fact that stocks are a tactical element of salem gameplay they should remain unchanged.

3> hate TBC because it nullifies the 10 to 1 advantage they rely on. do note that i was the biggest opponent of TBC that there was, i still am not a particular fan of the way they work and when it was first implemented i spent months arguing that they should instead force the accusor and the accused into a sectioned off 1v1 encounter similar to kobato suggested. this would have been the perfect match of forced accountability combined with actual skill being a factor instead of being summoned offline or by 10 retards. i still retain that the general idea of the TBC is good in making it so one can not run away (which is what happened in the old days, targets like the kzerg simply ran to their next town the second you put a waste claim down)

however the implementation is poor, again it should be an actual "trial by combat" meaning accused and accusor are dropped into an arena and only one comes out. that would be cool and would give rise to true super villains risking major characters as well as esteemed "inquisitors" to do the prosecuting, you would end up with a few badass criminals and a few badass prosecutors and each time two crossed paths it would be like a UFC championship then you would have all the mediocres in between going tit for tat like now just in a far more fun and balanced manner.

that being said if the TBC will not or can not be changed in time it to should remain exactly how it is, the alternative that we had before where everyone just jumped to the next base was radically inferior, likewise since some here seem to not know how they work and suggested a 12 hour timer, that is what it already is 90% of the time.

12 hour for theft/revenge
8 hour for waste
4 hour for murder

so short of murder and an occasional unlucky bit of timing with waste you have ample time to react.

furthermore TBC is again easily countered by shooting it down from range with a mortar or by investing the time on a large vault, on an expedition people do not build TBC towns as the resources/money is not there to do so. all of that being said i never killed anyone with a TBC on an expedition as it was easier to just cannon their base and kill them there (again, see point one for why judaism and the usual suspects hate cannons )



once again there was very little wrong with the expedition. other than the wimpy playerbase in this game and the fact that as usual the self proclaimed "pvpers" all joined hands in a big circlejerk making up over 50% of the playerbase (thus they ran off the newbs they were zerging and then whined they had nobody to "fight"), the only thing that was a major detriment and can easily be tied to making the server get stale was the riddle trail for witches to enable a chance at victory, without a clear path to a win everyone quickly loses sight of why they are there in the first place and are not motivated to put the effort in on a temp server.

short of any major overhauls that i could suggest all day long and are unlikely to happen the second expedition should be exactly like the first. just throw witch dolls on a vendor for 20k or some ****.

[TotalyMeow]

Judaism, you make some of the same arguments I've made, as I would like to see a couple things removed and raiding made more simple. But of course we can't just reset the raid system to what it was before as you suggest. It's not that easy. There were problems with it, major problems you don't seem to be familiar with. And the rest of the game has changed so much that what we had before wouldn't work at all now.

No obviously I would have no clue myself how you guys envision a balanced system

That's... not what I said. This is why it's hard to have a conversation with you, you fall back on insults and delirious stupidity far too often.

Getting back on topic though, a little clarification on a couple of the questions:

'Who should win?' means 'What should be the conditions for winning the server and causing it to end?' rather than 'Which player do you think will win?'.

We'd prefer the name of the server to be like the names of all the previous servers, old colonies and towns.

When John asked how long the server should be, he meant how long we should try to set it up to last. It's still going to be up to you guys to end it. If you vote for 3 months, we'll pace it to take 3 months to reach the server goals, but it'll still go on until one of you ends it.

[Judaism]

the majority of the retards in this thread are nothing more than retards that run around in a family value pack of retardation thus they.....

1> hate cannons because it allows small groups to compete, without them there would be no way a small to moderate raid force would ever get into their town of 60 (yes thats how many they had last time ) people. cannons are an essential part of expeditions and should remain unchanged unless to remove the nerf from them. i would also point out that judaism has zero clue how cannons even work, he last posted some nonsense about 800 cloak giving you a miniscule timer (nope) and just now a 70 tile range (again, nope)

Yes it comes down to that I think individual players shoudn't be able to compete, thats my perspective on it. A single player shoudn't be favoured with mechanics like cannons which can be secured, locked and done inactively. I fully understand why you are defending cannons but I don't think expeditions should be win-able alone or with a handfull friends. The harsh requirements for a t3 witch, if in any case were true surely made that clear.

And maybe not cloak, I haven't played around with cannons for over a year. I think it was either cloak or sparks and it can be lifted towards an instant shot with high enough. The exact tiles I don't recall either, all I know is that its way beyond render range so thats not very far off from 70 tiles, it might be more. We sure did testings at the start, but its beyond the point.

2> hate stocks because it allows for newbs to have some form of getback when they would otherwise have none and allows pvp groups to tactically remove one of them from the fight for a few hours. stocks are also very very easily countered for those who are not lazy and incompetent and players in the big zerg groups are both which is why they play in said big groups in the first place. furthermore stocks are an essential part of the expedition as it determines the next round of bonus whip rewards. given the easy counter, essential scoreboard factor and the fact that stocks are a tactical element of salem gameplay they should remain unchanged.

Yes stocks are simply just annoying on a freaking PvP server you don't want to build up infrastructure to combat the madness.

3> hate TBC because it nullifies the 10 to 1 advantage they rely on. do note that i was the biggest opponent of TBC that there was, i still am not a particular fan of the way they work and when it was first implemented i spent months arguing that they should instead force the accusor and the accused into a sectioned off 1v1 encounter similar to kobato suggested. this would have been the perfect match of forced accountability combined with actual skill being a factor instead of being summoned offline or by 10 retards. i still retain that the general idea of the TBC is good in making it so one can not run away (which is what happened in the old days, targets like the kzerg simply ran to their next town the second you put a waste claim down)

however the implementation is poor, again it should be an actual "trial by combat" meaning accused and accusor are dropped into an arena and only one comes out. that would be cool and would give rise to true super villains risking major characters as well as esteemed "inquisitors" to do the prosecuting, you would end up with a few badass criminals and a few badass prosecutors and each time two crossed paths it would be like a UFC championship then you would have all the mediocres in between going tit for tat like now just in a far more fun and balanced manner.

that being said if the TBC will not or can not be changed in time it to should remain exactly how it is, the alternative that we had before where everyone just jumped to the next base was radically inferior, likewise since some here seem to not know how they work and suggested a 12 hour timer, that is what it already is 90% of the time.

12 hour for theft/revenge
8 hour for waste
4 hour for murder

so short of murder and an occasional unlucky bit of timing with waste you have ample time to react.

furthermore TBC is again easily countered by shooting it down from range with a mortar or by investing the time on a large vault, on an expedition people do not build TBC towns as the resources/money is not there to do so. all of that being said i never killed anyone with a TBC on an expedition as it was easier to just cannon their base and kill them there (again, see point one for why judaism and the usual suspects hate cannons )

The TBC's should not be the standard way to kill people, it should be doable to summon people and get inside their bases instead. An actual trail by combat like you suggest would make more sense but would probaly be hard to implement and woudn't change that much in the end tbh. Mortars should here also be out of the equation, I am anti long distance mechanics such as TBC's, Mortars and cannons. Also people like yourself simply make enclosed TBC's with towns and walls so that mortars are unreachable. Sure thats alot of effort but here once again ruining interaction and true fighting. I think real encounters are far more enjoyable and we've had so many in the first month of Providence and killed and lost many characters. That was fun and most people would agree with me here.

once again there was very little wrong with the expedition. other than the wimpy playerbase in this game and the fact that as usual the self proclaimed "pvpers" all joined hands in a big circlejerk making up over 50% of the playerbase (thus they ran off the newbs they were zerging and then whined they had nobody to "fight"), the only thing that was a major detriment and can easily be tied to making the server get stale was the riddle trail for witches to enable a chance at victory, without a clear path to a win everyone quickly loses sight of why they are there in the first place and are not motivated to put the effort in on a temp server.

You are one of the few people that think there was little wrong with the expeditions, I had hoped for alot more changes instead we had little differences. I liked the animals, the cannibalism and the statues tho.