Poverty in America

[Darwoth]

everything you said is basically like screaming the world is flat with tears streaming down your face as you actually look at it from a space shuttle, so i will only bother with this.

At that point you can explain me why that guy got a job, and why others don't, with a sentence more complex than "because he's not dumb".

no he is dumb, the difference is he actually wanted to be self sufficient and tried therefore is.

[Flame]

Most credible scientific studies find that around half of the variance in intelligence between individuals is from genetics.

Don't be so sure about it. Every day there is a new theory and scientific proof about this or that part.
Since science is not an opinion but a method, i would avoid to consider that a "definitive answer".

Not long time ago, a study said that africa kids were more intelligent than urbanized kids.
And today i see you talk about the opposite.

I think is a good move to wait before be sure of this or that thing. As for now, those sounds a bit weird and i can't find any real proof in real life that confirm it. The difference between a brother that study and a brother that doesn't, is so high that the dna seems too much weak to change the result significanlty.

In the meanwhile, problems have been debated and solved before without these dna theories, so we can just jump this argument and go back to the society-pshicology-economy topic.

Or we can turn this topic into a big list of yout tube links and news articles links that leads to the same conclusion = The truth is unclear.

Hint: that would be a good way to cut me out from the topic, since i can't see any use in debating about something we can't know, until scientist will give us a definitive answer.
I personally think it is fake and i hope scientist will proof me right. If scientist will proof me wrong deifnitly, i'll add it in my knowledge and that's it.
You think it is true. You should wait too, but that's up to you.

I don't think this is a matter of debating, since no one of us is a scientist and we can't join the study.

everything you said is basically like screaming the world is flat with tears streaming down your face as you actually look at it from a space shuttle

Ah, ok. Not really, but that's your freedom.

[Darwoth]

[Flame]

Let's quote your answer as answer to that picture.

so you have zero argument and i am just a fatty lady

Aside that:
In which school have been studied that scientist claim that DNA play an important part in the human intelligent from prehistory 'till now?
Are you talking about brain deformation and those ilness? That have been proof it's real and is worldwide accepted.
But the relation between social class - DNA - Intelligent is not worldwide accepted, so the debate is still open.
That's it.
This topic argument turned into "Do we have a sure answer with DNA & Intelligent relation?"
We should split this silly argument to another topic, probably.


And
We can talk about why humans with the same potential doesn't reach the same goal, which is more coherent with the poverty debate.

[Inotdead]

Wait a second guy. I'm not pretending that darw is a nazi. I'm surprised just like you are surprised of my words...

Okay. Fair enough, my bad.

However this

since all the dogs can be trained the same way

Is simply not true. All dogs can learn the basics, yes, but not when it comes to the more advanced stuff. There are breeds that are known to be smarter and easier to train, like German Shepherds. And there are breeds that are known to be pain in the ass to train, like hounds

The difference between a brother that study and a brother that doesn't, is so high that the dna seems too much weak to change the result significanlty.

Stating that studying = intelligence, or knowledge = intelligence for that matter is ridiculous to me. Do you honestly believe that all kids are born equally smart? How come there is a difference in time and effort for people to understand new material then?

But even if we assume for a second that all of this is true, the original claim by Darwoth was that stupid people are more likely to breed more stupid people. Imagine, the kid would grow up in an environment where his parent didn't value studying, didn't value knowledge and rather placed their values elsewhere. Even if the kid is born as smart as every other kid, don't you think that would impact his development?

[Darwoth]

stop asking things that you dont want to know flame!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE8aMYrcDrM

[Flame]

don't you think that would impact his development?

Ohhh! Happy to hear this. Happy to know that we didn't jumped back in the medieval age all of a sudden. Thanks, dude. XD

I see your point and i see where the bug is. As usual, language barrier.
If you talk about dna and intelligence, you have to be carefull about what are yout exactly talking about.
The predisposition for math (example) or for certain things, is a Trait.
Learn math easily or have a difficult time with it, is predisposition at visualize the math concept.
Same is for artistic talent, is easier for those that have a predisposition in visualize the things in their mind.
This works with politic and so on.

But art and math can be learned even by people without predisposition, it just need a different studiyng method or more training. The brain of the *omo sapiens sapiens (*<-- forum censorship XD) have not changed from the prehistory, so the "dna corruption with breeding" was a really tragic view of what's is simply a Trait.
Consider a trait a meter of "dumbness" is doomster and exagerate.

For example i think that all the peoplethat anger easily, are lowering the general human QI, since are also easier to fool.
But traits can be improved in the living time, so dna here have a really weak influence.
What really count is the environment.


So, back to the topic:
You think that remove a support from a person forces him to find his way out the poverty. This was the last topic related thing we were talking about, right?

[Inotdead]

But art and math can be learned even by people without predisposition, it just need a different studiyng method or more training. The brain of the *omo sapiens sapiens (*<-- forum censorship XD) have not changed from the prehistory, so the "dna corruption with breeding" was a really tragic view of what's is simply a Trait.
Consider a trait a meter of "dumbness" is doomster and exagerate.

Except there is no fixed "trait" you speak of, and various people show various degrees of predisposition to various subjects. To say it's simply a trait is a really silly attempt to oversimplifying how the things really are.
When people say "smart" they usually don't care what subjects you are good at and rather imply your overall ability to make weighted decisions and capability of rational thinking.

What really count is the environment.

Okay. So you say all children are equally smart except for minor traits and with proper studying method and more training everyone could have a PhD.
My question still stands and now you say it yourself - "stupid" environment begets more "stupid" people - which is what Darwoth said in the first place.

[Flame]

which is what Darwoth said in the first place.

Which is something i'd like to debate when i'm sure that the dna-trait thing is clear.
I'm still a bit confused though and i would ask you something, but i wonder if this is definitly off topic or not. For now, i'll use this topic, but it will be probably splittes at some point.

So you say all children are equally smart

This confuses me.
What i say is that the brain is the same. If we take the brain from people without any illness, their brain size & quality is the same. Science says we have the same potential as the prehistoric men. Races don't affect the brain efficency.
I think it's obvious, but i wanted to speficy this because the "dna" word imply "science proof that brains aren't the same".
If US science teach this, it sounds new and contradictory with what science teach us here.

BUT
I think that, at this point, you're not talking about "brains & dna", but maybe personality heritage? Traits?
I think this is the main gap between us.

Personality is a thing.
Dna dumbness is another (dumb = less smart brain --> my claim of racism --> debating).

Just make this clear, so that we can pass over the word ambiguity (boosted by different language preconception).

[Darwoth]

do you just not understand the words that are being spoken or are you literally putting your fingers in your ears yelling "nuh uh!!" at this point? a quick internet search of "is intelligence hereditary" brings up REAMS of studies from every leading neuroscientist in the ***** field that says YES the upper level of an individuals intellectual capacity is directly influenced by your hereditary genetics aka dna, the only ***** debate is exactly what parts of the brain and in what percentages (low end research suggests low 40% high end suggests nearly 60%)

Heritability is the amount of variability that is genetic in origin. Heritability is measured with a value between 0 and 1. A heritability of 1 would indicate that all of the variation is genetic in origin. A heritability of 0 would indicate that none of the variation is genetic in origin. Depending on which research study you examine, intellectual ability has an estimated heritability between .4 and .8. Most researchers agree to a heritability for intellectual ability that is somewhere around .5. This means that evidence suggests our genetic makeup plays a significant role in intelligence.

you are a total clown, but what the ***** can one expect from somebody that lives in a country that sends people to prison for not predicting earthquakes good enough.