The Second Amendment of the US Constitution

[Dallane]

Do you have the information to back that up or are you watching too many CSI episodes?

"Slightly more than 21 percent (21.2) of aggravated assaults were committed with firearms"
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... _final.pdf
10.4% of violent victimizations by strangers and 4.5% by non-strangers involve a gun
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vvcs9310.pdf
Gun violence peeked in the 80s and early 90s and even then only 17% of robberies involved a gun.
http://scholarlycommons.law.northwester ... ntext=jclc

Oh the humanity

Full-auto weapons, like unmodified AKs, are illegal in the US so I doubt new laws banning different guns are going to prevent criminals from illegally buying already illegal guns.

So you are using outdating information from 2011 and the 80s.......wow do I need to get meow to check your IP for account sharing with cleaty?

You can get full auto weps in the US actualy. Just need to get checked and pay a 300$ tax stamp to the ATF.

[DarkNacht]

So you are using outdating information from 2011 and the 80s.......wow do I need to get meow to check your IP for account sharing with cleaty?

You can get full auto weps in the US actualy. Just need to get checked and pay a 300$ tax stamp to the ATF.

Because **** has changed so much since 2011. And here are the 2014 numbers for Aggravated assault(22%), look at that massive difference. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... output.xls
And OK yeah technically you can by a full auto weapon if it was lawfully owned before the ban, but that makes them rarer and harder to get a hold of, and requires enough paperwork and government approval that, unless you have statics to prove otherwise, I don't see any reason to worry about an outbreak of criminals running around with legally bought full auto weapons. IIRC there are even still a few Gatling-style guns that are legal to buy and I am not worried about some spree killer getting a hold of one of those either, because someone is more likely to die from being beat to death by a criminal with no weapon than to be shot by some nutbag with a machine gun.

[TotalyMeow]

This just goes to show that trying to remove guns from the populace won't change crime all that much. I heard once, I have no source to back this up though, that muggers and the like prefer knives to guns because knives are psychologically more terrifying and are therefore more likely to get people to cooperate when you try to take all their stuff. Also cheaper and much quieter.

[Flame]

Too much faith in humanity.

Uh, no, i simplify humanity into animals. I have no faith at all in humanity, i think they are easy to fool.
What stops humanity in most of the important tasks it have (save the world, maybe?) is Laziness. Since is an animal, laziness is an important feeling, quite hard to beat.

So, if i remove weapons to humanity, they will fight with easier to find weapons.
Just like animals, they'll use knives, stones, forks. Only a few, deeply angry or crazy dudes, will search for a stronger weapon. Only a few of those crazy people will actually end up having one without getting caught by the police.


Try to delete all the jam into your city for 10 years without do any propaganda about it. Just remove them little by little.
People will just ignore it and forget about it. They could travel to get the Jam, or start a black market of the jam, but they would do this only if they realize the jam is being removed.

Since my country is loosing his Rights little by little, i can't have faith in humanity.
But then, i have faith that humanity is not hard to change. Usually in the bad way, since any good action need to fight laziness.
But if you simply remove the weapons little by little, they will just forget to buy one.

Life is time drain. Not enough time to bother with something you don't see clearly.

[Dallane]

So you are using outdating information from 2011 and the 80s.......wow do I need to get meow to check your IP for account sharing with cleaty?

You can get full auto weps in the US actualy. Just need to get checked and pay a 300$ tax stamp to the ATF.

Because **** has changed so much since 2011. And here are the 2014 numbers for Aggravated assault(22%), look at that massive difference. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/c ... output.xls
And OK yeah technically you can by a full auto weapon if it was lawfully owned before the ban, but that makes them rarer and harder to get a hold of, and requires enough paperwork and government approval that, unless you have statics to prove otherwise, I don't see any reason to worry about an outbreak of criminals running around with legally bought full auto weapons. IIRC there are even still a few Gatling-style guns that are legal to buy and I am not worried about some spree killer getting a hold of one of those either, because someone is more likely to die from being beat to death by a criminal with no weapon than to be shot by some nutbag with a machine gun.

wtf are you talking about? Full auto are only rare because of the price. They are made and sold all the time. The only thing you need to do is fill out your paper work, wait for approval, pay your tax stamp then go buy your auto. I never said that criminals will get them this way. Thats what mexico is for. Thankfully we will have a wall going up soon to stop that.

Evan your arguement of criminals not using guns doesn't matter at all. Who cares what is used to rob someone why in the world would that matter at all in gun control. Are yu saying that people don't have the right to protect themselves?

[Darwoth]

i did not bother reading/participating in this thread because i have had this "discussion" hundreds of times since i was about 15 years old and the arguments on both sides remain the exact same which really makes the whole ordeal tedious and nonsensical to read through.

folks in support of the second amendment rightfully declare that the amendment says what it means, leftist buffoons and europeans with centuries of history of being ruled instead of ruling themselves try to use doublespeak to redefine context and definitions alonf with arguing irrelevant semantics and comparisons to some other country (which means absolutely ***** nothing) to undermine said right.

at the end of the day if i own weapons it is not because someone in a powdered wig 250 years ago said i could, i own them because i said i could which is the essence of being an american. i could not give a remote ***** how many people shoot each other in canada, or australia or europe or my country it matters not and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on my rights. i will still exercise my natural right to defend myself, family and property regardless of who likes it or agrees with me or not, and it really is that simple.

[Darwoth]

oh god i shiould of read the thread so i could of seen "gatling guns" ( ) brought up.

yeah man, someone is going to go cart a gatling gun around

FYI full auto weapons, ARTILLERY pieces, flamesthrowers, grenade launchers and so on are ALL 100% legal in this country so long as you go through the extra red tape.

1> the weapon must have been registered prior to the 1986 amnesty, which means that the prices are hyper inflated (an acquaintance of mine bought an IMI model b (uzi) that cost 7 thousand dollars MANY years ago, even a mac 10 which is normally a 400 dollar weapon is several grand, you are looking at 15 - 20k for an m16 etc)

2> you must file paperwork with the atf, which then gouges you for a 200 dollar tax stamp and does an fbi background check (the same one everyone already does when buying **** already)

3> you sit on your ass for about 3 months and then voila you have your select fire weapon depending on local laws, some states require your local sheriff to sign off on it etc which is typically not an issue, if you have a douchebag sheriff that does not like guns you will have to form an LLC to take ownership of the weapon.


"destructive devices" (artillery, grenade launchers, calibers higher than .50 like 20mm etc) are much easiuer and simpler to register and require a 5 dollar tax stamp.

"AOW" (any other weapon) which are exotic things like pen guns, umbrella guns, sawed off shotguns, short barrel rifles, silencers and so on also require a 5 dollar stamp as well and the same general process.

AOW's are not effected by the 1986 amnesty and thus you can acquire new ****, pretty sure this applies to DDs also but cant remember.


you can also get a class 2 manufacturers license if you like, which allows you to circumvent the 1986 ban and the inflated prices and buy all the new best ****, but you can only own it so long as you maintain your license. this is how we have the best armed police/military in the world by the way, the hundreds of c2 manufacturers in this country that keep things on the cutting edge of technology.


SO yeah, since there were full auto weapons americans have owned them by the hundreds of thousands and guess what? last time someone used a legally owned full auto in a crime was oh about the prohibition era

[Darwoth]

AND speaking of "gatling guns" there are thousands and thousands of people across this country that have one of these type items http://www.cabelas.com/product/BMF-Activator/707343.uts on their guns, they work a lot better than a real gatling gun to (and yes, i have fired an original brass framed gatling)

acorrding to all the ***** in this thread every corner of the country should be SWIMMING in blood, instead of you know........ the places guns are not allowed.......

[Flame]

Gatling gun?

That's a bit exagerating, guys.
Was it because i said kalasnikov (aya, not correctly written)?
That's actually the first name that i could randomly recall in my mind.

I didn't wanted to point out the automatic-not automatic argument. That's just semantics. XD

[Darwoth]

now i read slightly more of the thread, and am even more confused about who is actually arguing what so back to popham i go!

to summarize

1> yes you can own machineguns, cannons and so on in this country provided you do the proper paperwork which is basically the same paperwork and same background system that everyone fills out when they buy any other gun.

2> the second amendment merely gives voice and affirmation to an individuals natural right to bear arms and defend themselves, it does not "grant" it so arguing semantics about several century old legal precdedent or what "the meaning of is is" is pretty ***** stupid.

3> comparing countries is nonsensical for a variety of conditions that can not be matched in the populace and culture itself.

4> dont want a gun, dont buy one. if you think it is you or anyone elses place to try and legislate hundreds of millions of people into complying with YOUR viewpoint you are nothing but freedom hating trash and the exact defining reason the second amendment was written in the first place.