i hope claeyt is ok

[Heffernan]

i always wonder... what if Claeyt is really Superintelligent but play Retarded to Troll you with his post and bait you into keep replying to him?

[Claeyt]

it's kinda cute how you still think claeyt can be won over by logical arguments.

Does anyone believe this? I do not, I just like to argue.

However, I can say that I never thought that people should be allowed more than hunting and some hand guns until last night when I really really looked at the second amendment and put two and two together. I've known the intent of the second amendment since high school, but never actually realized what it means. Talking to Claeyt changed my mind.

Then you're an idiot. The second amendment was never meant to promote the threat of violence against local or democratically elected government officials and it was especially not meant to threaten the safety of the people with an individual right to own a gun. This is the warped anti-government nonsense of right wing fear over a changing demographic and changing world and is the end result of the necessary action of the federal government having to step in to stop 300 years of slavery, 100 years of violent racist Apartheidesque repression and generations of oligarchic control over local and state governments for the good of the American people.

Is the federal government always right? No. 240 years of Indian Wars and Wars against the World and unnecessary wars and imperialist wars and ideological wars suppressing democratic choices for socialism have proven that the federal government is dangerous.

but even if you believe the second amendment is only an individual right and not a States right (Which I and most legal scholars don't believe)

...an individual right does not supersede the right of the rest of us in a society to live wholly safe and happy.

As for workplace rules there is no national protections for workplace firings for sexual orientation... period. You can flat out be fired by your company if they find out you're gay, no questions asked in most states and none by the federal government. The Republicans have blocked this over and over.

Yeah, and I was laid off once when they realized they weren't comfortable with a woman. They don't have to say it, they made up an incredibly lame, but legal, excuse. However, many states are instituting protective laws, though I see your state isn't one of them. Maybe you should do something useful and write your representatives.

A mish-mash of State laws defining how you can discriminate against women or homosexuals in the workplace isn't the answer. They need to be included in federal law governing discrimination. The Republicans have blocked this over and over again and like we've seen with the Title IX lawsuit in North Carolina the flimsy legal controls that the federal government can use (in this case federal funding for schools) are inadequate.

No, you are wrong. Being gay is not like having red hair. Being gay is also a community. Being gay is more like being 'Irish'. Yes, you may have red hair but you also have 'Irish Bars' and 'St. Patty's Day Parades' and a special flag and other stuff that important to your community and when some religious nut job guns down a bar full of 'Irish People' and hunted the survivors because they're 'Irish' you feel it deep down and personally. And when you're friends with some 'Irish' people and have had some drinks and laughs with them in 'Irish Bars' on occasion you tell people that you sympathize with them and all 'Irish' people right now and think about your 'Irish' friends and how they feel.

And when some jackass says that your 'Irish' friends shouldn't be proud of being 'Irish' or says that they should keep their being 'Irish' private then you call them out for being anti-'Irish' in this especially bad time for the 'Irish'.

Irish is a culture. I suppose you can argue that being gay is both a genetic trait and a nascent culture... but I don't go around introducing myself as Irish and proselytizing about 'Irish Pride' and starting parades about it. Because that would be silly. I know some people probably do, and I think they too are silly. Now, I'm not saying that they can't be silly. Let them be silly. I reserve the right to find it annoying.

Nobody, gay or Irish goes around introducing or proselytizing themselves as themselves every day. Every once in a while they'll go down to the bar and grab an Irish whiskey or go down to the gay bar and hang out with other gay dudes and dudettes and maybe once a year they'll throw a parade for themselves just like the Irish do on St. Patty's day.

...but what I think you're talking about is how you can 'tell' that some of the gays 'act' gay and how they should just 'act' normal. Is that what you're getting at with all this nonsense about how it's a trait and they should keep it private?

K, then you're NOW okay with gay people publicizing, parading and NOT keeping it private, because just 2 pages ago you said the opposite.

No, 2 pages ago, you deliberately misunderstood me... again.

I don't think I didn't misunderstand you. I think you're just really, really bad at talking about this and defining what your trying to say.

I'm not Republican, actually, and I disagree with many things that both the Republicans and the Democrats have done.

Yet you're defending their gun law policy.

I agree with things that both the Republicans and Democrats have to say too. It annoys me to no end that we have only two major political parties and that they are divided the way they are. There is never anyone who agrees with me entirely that I can vote for. I have to usually just pick the one closest and hope for the best. For example, I disagree with the 'right to life' argument, though that is a big old topic all it's own. Point is, I'm smart enough to make my own decisions of what I agree or disagree with, I don't just vote a party line because my ancestors did or whatever.[/quote]

Well if you're defending the right's gun law argument you're on the wrong side of history and the world's going to change so get ready.

It does not say that at all. Only in the most loosely interpreted Republican wet dreams does this:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
mean unregulated unlicensed unchecked gun sales, and ownership of modern weaponry and firepower undreamed of by the founding fathers.
The constitution does NOT tell us that completely unregulated gun ownership is a guaranteed right...

It says 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'. And I know that many others have made this argument, but infringed means 'limit, undermine, or encroach on', which seems fairly clear. That gun ownership should not be limited. At all. Now, I'm not saying that I disagree with any and all limitations, but that's what the amendment says.

I know, people who want governmental regulations of gun ownership like to point out the beginning of the amendment, but look at it again. It's talking about a Militia. Not the militia, and not specifically guns. In this case, 'well regulated' means 'working properly, correctly maintained' and it's not saying 'government regulated militia'. It's not saying who does the regulating. It means we have the right to organize ourselves to train and regulate ourselves into a militia. That part of the amendment has nothing to do with governmental gun regulation.

I just posted a brief history of where the second amendment came from and why it says what it does. What you're describing is the warped Anti-government argument of the post Civil War era as defined by the 1875 Supreme Court Decision which was founded in the resurgence of the South into the era of Jim Crow after the reconstruction era. You're literally arguing the point that Klan members made to define owning guns to attack the federal protections of Blacks in the last century.

Here's the other post:

No, we don't trust our police or our government here in America. We don't trust them to be able to prevent the smuggling in of weapons for use in terrorist activities or other criminal activities. The TSA is very showy, but in truth our borders are pretty porous and private planes and boats don't have a huge problem smuggling tons of whatever they want to across our borders every day. Criminals who really want guns will continue to get them just as they do in all parts of the world.

There's also the matter of the second amendment. When the constitution was written, the people who wrote it had come from European countries that had histories of various forms of governmental oppression and the writers feared America could go the same route. The bill of rights was their answer to that and the second amendment was put in specifically to allow the people to protect themselves in a warlike situation of the USA being attacked on its own soil and to allow the people to stage an armed revolt against the government should it become too oppressive.

So, yeah, the constitution was specifically set up in such a way that people should be able to rule their own government and keep it honest through threat of actual armed revolution.

This is absolutely False and you're about to learn why you never, NEVER argue the Constitution with anyohne from Madison WI. My city is named for the man who organized and help write the Constitution. Our downtown streets are named after every single signer of the constitution. That being said I'll keep it simple for our foreign Salemites.

This is not why the Bill of Rights was written at all. You really need to read some history about how and why the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation in 1789 after 8 years.

The Articles of Confederation, the first form of laws governing the United States created a weak federal government that left much of the power of governance to the States. Individual States began to ignore the treaty with Britain protecting loyalists and their property and Shay's Rebellion (the exact sort of armed rebellion of the people Tmeow's talking about) convinced the early government that a stronger Federal government was required. So the Constitution was created to form federal control over and superseding State law, along with other stuff like forming an army... etc.

The Anti-Federalists/Pro-State government supporters were able to pass the 'Bill of Rights' or the first 10 amendments to the constitution AGAINST the wishes of the majority of the founding fathers. Anti-federalist founding fathers such as John Hancock and Sam Adams rightly feared an imperialist federal government controlled by a strong president. They viewed States as the proper balance to opposing this. They viewed the Bill of Rights amendments to the constitution as defining the relationship of the Federal government to the State governments and specifically the protection of individual rights through the State governments and the common inclusion of individual rights within their State constitutions.

The Second amendment was specifically taken from the 'Virginian Declaration of Rights'.

So this section from the 'Virginia Declaration of Rights':

Section 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

became this:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America.

The Anti-Federalist/Radical Anti-Government strain unique to America and now housed in the Republican party has warped this to mean that any person can buy any gun at any time. They were able to get the supreme court to install this as interpreted law in 1875 and it's been maintained since with no changes to account for modern weapons, or modern ideas about safety of the commons over individual rights.

It happened like I explained but I guess someone's going to have to go dig it up. I'll leave that to you.

I bet you will. You're hoping everyone else will be too lazy to look it up. Except who cares? Everyone but you remembers accurately how it ended.

Again, it's buried. I nominate the admin to go find it and prove me wrong.

No, as I've said in this thread many, many times now people who are going to commit a crime are going to find a way. Let's make it as hard for them to do that as possible by making it as hard as possible for them to get a gun. Fortunately that also means that it'll be harder for all of us to get a gun including all those abusive husbands who shoot their wives and kids, or those right wing nut jobs who want to take over nature centers.

You just argued one thing, and concluded the opposite. And how, really, is an abusive husband shooting his family any different from beating them to death? Your argument truly pisses me off. If someone who is going to commit a crime is going to find a way, trying to keep guns out of their hands is irrelevant.

No it's not irrelevant. Not at all, because people are only criminals when they finally pull the trigger. You're trying to argue that we should somehow keep the guns out of criminals hands while allowing everyone who isn't a criminal to buy one. That's how this guy in Orlando got his, or the guy in San Bernadino, or the guy in Oregon, or the guy in Sandy Hook...etc... It couldn't be proven that he was a criminal so he was legally allowed to buy as many guns as he wanted. That's the problem. No one should be allowed to buy as many guns as they want without licensing, controls and regulation in a civil society. We don't let anyone buy and drive a car without licensing. We don't allow anyone go fish or own a boat or hunt without a license and contact with the government for regulation and background checks. So why in the ***** do we allow anyone to go buy and arm a gun, specifically a gun that's designed to kill as many people as possible with no restrictions, continuing licensing or universal background checks. It's insanity not to do what every other safe, democratic, modern, westernized country has done and control access to guns.

This is the only way to keep this from happening and from keeping guns out of the hands of most mass murderers, most criminals, most terrorists and most murderers. It'll never be perfect but it'll be harder for them to do stuff like this and we'll have less killings.

[Darwoth]

i always wonder... what if Claeyt is really Superintelligent but play Retarded to Troll you with his post and bait you into keep replying to him?

that was one of the original theories when he first showed up, that it was a chief/JC troll, however over the years of people interacting with him personally in game and in voice chats etc the sad reality is that he is 100% genuine.

he has always been a complete ***** moron as well even if you remove his nonensical politics from the equation, for a full year back on roanoke binks and i would just make up totally random ***** about some "super secret bug" that was so unrealisticly porposterous it could not possibly be believed, we would also tell him "not to tell anyone"

we would then sit there and laugh our spleens out back and forth as we watched his character turn into a merry go round as he "warned" every single person on the screen, there were seriously like 3 - 4 dozen massive rumors that were planted as part of disinformation against various towns/factions back then that were spread by doing nothing more than telling claeyt.

buto made a ***** "hack program" menu bout a year and a half ago and it was "leaked" to claeyt along with a few message boards posts from our boards where we were plotting to kill the whole server overnight with out hackery.

he then spent two weeks telling everyone i was a hacker



viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9453&hilit


claeyt is one of those jackoffs irl who if he was jewish would spraypaint a big swastika on his church in the middle of the night and tell everyone about the "evil racist nazis" that were harassing him, he is truly a nauseating waste of skin.

[Flame]

I think that i just saw the worste picture in all the salem forum hystory. Is more awfull than a svastika, a homo-hating something, a gore picture, a anything.

The complexity of that bot
simply drops any reason to play this game.

Not even a bit of regret, you dudes? T_T



Edit:
wait.
there are a few completely unrealistic options there.

Damn.
I didn't payed attention on read them ALL first.

You won a cricket. XD
Damn.
Damn.
XDDD
Damn.



Really.
Damn.
The more i read them, the more i laugh.

Damn.
XDDDD

[Claeyt]

Thank you, meow. :3

Thanks for what?

just gonna leave this here

oh and btw..... 'Murica

http://abc10.com/news/local/sacramento/ ... /243211965

This quote will help you understand America:

"We sent all the petty thieves, drunkards and ***** to Australia. We saved America for the really evil twats. They got all the religious fanatics and slavers." - anonymous member of the House of Commons.

When Trump takes over people like you will have no voice, and I'm just fine with that even if he burns the nation to the ground.

Then you are a fascist and I will always fight fascism.

"We will fight the fascists in the streets and we will fight the fascists in the forests and the mountains. Their ideas lead to death and our ideas lead to life. It's as simple as that." - unknown soldier of the 'International Brigade' in the Spanish Civil War, interviewed by British newspaperman

"The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism." - Henry Wallace 1938

I'm as much or more of a working man than you'll ever be. I've done contract work, I've done Section 8 and I've done anything you can think of when it comes to construction. Just because you think you're a working man doesn't mean ****. If you're a contractor then you probably employ someone else. THEY are the working man, you are the foreman using their labor. I've done both of those jobs.

Trumps not on your side. He's screwed over more working men and contractors than you've ever met or seen. If you were really a 'Working Man" you'd see that. You'd also see that he's trying to separate and divide the workers of this country and this world by attacking the Immigrants (legal or otherwise), Muslims and 'The Others' of the world. I hope you see through his lies.

i always wonder... what if Claeyt is really Superintelligent but play Retarded to Troll you with his post and bait you into keep replying to him?

Why would you think I'm retarded?

i always wonder... what if Claeyt is really Superintelligent but play Retarded to Troll you with his post and bait you into keep replying to him?

that was one of the original theories when he first showed up, that it was a chief/JC troll, however over the years of people interacting with him personally in game and in voice chats etc the sad reality is that he is 100% genuine.

To really understand the difference between me and Darwoth read the chats. Like I said in the thread. This is either a bot or a troll to complicated and good to not take the bait on. I almost felt honored you guys put that much time and effort into it. I mean you had a whole thread about it on your guild forum and even created a menu.

As for the rest. Those were good times. I miss Binks. You may have trolled me but I trolled you as much or more and you've still never killed me.

darwoth: ok, well if your in california one day and want to meet up or go to a gym or something so we can have the conversation and you can kick my ass let me know.

'Yargle Bargle Nonsense' trying to maintain the flea circus sized manhood that he's left with.

[Darwoth]

yes two years ago you were somewhat fun to spat with over nonsense, thats why everytime you got yourself banned it was always me quietly advocating on your behalf. between then and now however you turned into your typical hate filled venom spitting militant liberal, which is simply an delusional ******* that nobody can stand so you have ruined much of that aspect.


and i have been trolled a few times by various folks, but i can not recall a time you ever trolled me on anything, feel free to clarify if i am incorrect.

[HPLovecraft]

it's kinda cute how you still think claeyt can be won over by logical arguments.

Does anyone believe this? I do not, I just like to argue.

However, I can say that I never thought that people should be allowed more than hunting and some hand guns until last night when I really really looked at the second amendment and put two and two together. I've known the intent of the second amendment since high school, but never actually realized what it means. Talking to Claeyt changed my mind.

Then you're an idiot.

Good job. I'm going to take a guess most people stopped reading at this line. Calling someone an idiot who has offered proper arguments this entire time does nothing.

No one should be allowed to buy as many guns as they want without licensing, controls and regulation in a civil society.

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
-Robert A. Heinlein

So why in the ***** do we allow anyone to go buy and arm a gun, specifically a gun that's designed to kill as many people as possible with no restrictions, continuing licensing or universal background checks. It's insanity not to do what every other safe, democratic, modern, westernized country has done and control access to guns.

I can buy a reproduced Whitworth rifle and put a modern scope on it and hit people in the back up to 2,000 yards. Guaranteed hits at 1,200 yards if I go to the range often enough. Remember all the incidents where people were terrorized by marksmen with bolt action rifles? You can do the same with this easily. Don't bother responding we need to ban all firearms.

This is the only way to keep this from happening and from keeping guns out of the hands of most mass murderers, most criminals, most terrorists and most murderers. It'll never be perfect but it'll be harder for them to do stuff like this and we'll have less killings.

This is how politicians get shot you know? Do you really want to send the U.S. into civil war that badly?

[Claeyt]

yes two years ago you were somewhat fun to spat with over nonsense, thats why everytime you got yourself banned it was always me quietly advocating on your behalf. between then and now however you turned into your typical hate filled venom spitting militant liberal, which is simply an delusional ******* that nobody can stand so you have ruined much of that aspect.

and i have been trolled a few times by various folks, but i can not recall a time you ever trolled me on anything, feel free to clarify if i am incorrect.

You've always been a racist ******* throughout this game and it's never fun listening to your racism in chat or on the forum. Dallane's just a spam-trolling *******. It's the great failing of JC that he chose You and Dallane as his non-MM chat buddy forum entourage instead of Binks, Alloin, PmP and the rest of the Tribal nut-huggers. Thanks to the gods Kandarim is still around to provide some intelligence to his cast of courtiers. I wish MagicMann was here. I miss him.

I've trolled you in game more than you've ever trolled or me. I saved the 'Candy Queen' from your trap AND I saved Sipo from you when you cursed him with the bear intestine AND I helped evacuate Arcadia after you took it. Not to mention all the other times I thwarted your little schemes.

[TotalyMeow]

The second amendment... blah blah blah...

Okay... let's just take this part of it to a new thread, which I will start when I get a moment. An historical discussion sounds like fun.

A mish-mash of State laws defining how you can discriminate against women or homosexuals in the workplace isn't the answer. They need to be included in federal law governing discrimination.

No, the federal government is bloated enough as it is. Let's not make it worse. It needs some fat cutting, if anything. I don't have a lot of confidence that State governments can make simpler laws really, but originally most of government was meant to be done at the state level so at least it has that going for it.

Nobody, gay or Irish goes around introducing or proselytizing themselves as themselves every day. Every once in a while they'll go down to the bar and grab an Irish whiskey or go down to the gay bar and hang out with other gay dudes and dudettes and maybe once a year they'll throw a parade for themselves just like the Irish do on St. Patty's day.

This all started with you bragging about your multitude of gay friends and my saying it's an odd thing to be proud of. And that's all. It's a very simple point and you're just trying so hard to make it about something else, which is why you are so confused.

No it's not irrelevant. Not at all, because people are only criminals when they finally pull the trigger. You're trying to argue that we should somehow keep the guns out of criminals hands while allowing everyone who isn't a criminal to buy one. That's how this guy in Orlando got his, or the guy in San Bernadino, or the guy in Oregon, or the guy in Sandy Hook...etc... It couldn't be proven that he was a criminal so he was legally allowed to buy as many guns as he wanted. That's the problem. No one should be allowed to buy as many guns as they want without licensing, controls and regulation in a civil society. We don't let anyone buy and drive a car without licensing. We don't allow anyone go fish or own a boat or hunt without a license and contact with the government for regulation and background checks. So why in the ***** do we allow anyone to go buy and arm a gun, specifically a gun that's designed to kill as many people as possible with no restrictions, continuing licensing or universal background checks. It's insanity not to do what every other safe, democratic, modern, westernized country has done and control access to guns.

I never said we should try to keep guns out of criminal hands. I said that's impossible and taking guns from everyone else will not help.

You mention mass shootings, and I agree that it is probably difficult to kill dozens of people with a knife. However, it is not hard to kill dozens with a bomb/grenade style weapon. If mass death is your aim, a gun is still not needed. And since most murders are individual, doing it with a knife or a bat or rat poison or a well-placed punch to the throat vs a gun will make little difference there either.

Now when it comes to a mass shooting, I think I'd prefer to have the option to have a gun and try to defend myself against a similarly armed opponent rather than find myself confronting a homemade grenade. When it comes to individual defense against someone I think is a threat, I'd probably also have a better chance with guns being involved than with most other weapons.

Licensing is an entirely different matter than controlling access to guns, especially on the levels of control you are talking about. I am not against mandatory gun safety and usage testing if you want to own and operate a gun. We teach Driver's Education in school, let's add the option for a firearms and weapons safety course as well. Similarly, learning permits so a parent can take their kid to a range and teach them themselves, etc. And you do already need permits to concealed carry.

[HPLovecraft]

When Trump takes over people like you will have no voice, and I'm just fine with that even if he burns the nation to the ground.

Then you are a fascist and I will always fight fascism.

No you are an fool. If someone does not disagree with you they are racist or oppressing "someone". Funny that you call me a fascist when you can't see that I clearly said you people will have no say. You will no longer be able to guilt shame legislature. Oh by the way. I mostly work alone or have one helper. So please shove your progressive nonsense up your ass. : )

No one cares if you can do the same job as them. Anyone can be a contractor if you've enough common sense and can use a tape.

We teach Driver's Education in school, let's add the option for a firearms and weapons safety course as well.

We use to do that through gun clubs.

Guess who banned bringing firearms into school for such as well as the clubs themselves in most states.