Takin' a whizz...

[jakhollin]

once again. there is no issue with "sharing" the bathroom with them, when they go to the correct bathroom.

the issue is allowing males that decide they "feel" like a female to invade the women only sectors of society in the name of political correctness, which then opens up people that are not necessarily even gay but are pedos or just your standard rapist there where they would not normally be permitted to be under the cover of being a ****.

remove chidlren from the equation entirely, if i was a rapist it would be 100x easier for me to find my victims by creeping in the bathroom pretending to be "gender confused"

or how about if i was just a dirty old man shooting voyeur porn? yeah thanks to **** like my new "gender identity" card it is a lot easier for me to sit on the sink with my video camera

Again you provide no evidence that a change in thought on a person who "identifies" as one thing or another or is actually one thing or another stops a rapist... Really if a person is going to knock over a liquor store and it is closed chances are they are not going to adhere to oh well the sign says closed I cant go in there. What kind of broken logic suggests that a person willing to break laws is going to adhere to the rules of a sign that says gals. Hell to be honest at the bar the men's restroom has been broken before and the choices were a bush or the women's restroom and cause the bar had no women I used that one instead. Does that make me a pervert even when the bartender says hey gonna have to use the women's restroom bud.

Even with the argument some pervert tries to say hey I was just there because I think of myself as a man or woman then commits a crime a jury is going to definitely ignore any part of that argument. Hell even the cops would just ignore the person. The idea is to allow a commonly disenfranchised group a few rights in a case where everyone else is imparted too them but they are not. I am sure many transgender women are really afraid of walking into a men's restroom in fear that the irrational behavior of other men will result in them being injured.

you are all retarded.

That is the exact response of irrational.

also the biggest reason of all to say "nope, ***** that"? because whelp, "nope, ***** that" i am quite tired of the entire fabric of societies boundaries being redefined in EVERY corner by a legion of politically correct *****

Very little is been redefined in such a way that truly impacts you in any way... You are standing on a soap box made of your own opinion that has no basis in any facts. I imagine you are all for increased rules for voter registration as well you know so we can prevent the voter fraud that never happens.

[jesi]

once again. there is no issue with "sharing" the bathroom with them, when they go to the correct bathroom.

the issue is allowing males that decide they "feel" like a female to invade the women only sectors of society in the name of political correctness, which then opens up people that are not necessarily even gay but are pedos or just your standard rapist there where they would not normally be permitted to be under the cover of being a ****.

remove chidlren from the equation entirely, if i was a rapist it would be 100x easier for me to find my victims by creeping in the bathroom pretending to be "gender confused"

or how about if i was just a dirty old man shooting voyeur porn? yeah thanks to **** like my new "gender identity" card it is a lot easier for me to sit on the sink with my video camera


you are all retarded.


also the biggest reason of all to say "nope, ***** that"? because whelp, "nope, ***** that" i am quite tired of the entire fabric of societies boundaries being redefined in EVERY corner by a legion of politically correct *****

Nothin stoppin dudes from doing what you posit anyway. Gender neutral toilets has nothing to do with it. Perverts gonna perv.

[Icon]

Darwoth nailed this one right on the head. Not having specific legislature stating who can go to what bathroom hasn't stopped any trannys from using a public bathroom before, but suddenly a "minority group" wants some specific recognition for their cause, so we now have to placate them with a law which opens the door more to be abused than used. Me personally, I stand near the bathroom door when my wife or kids use a public bathroom, not because I'm worried about it being filled with creepy weirdos, or because I give a **** if Bruce Jenner is in there, but because it's pretty basic security. For all I know there could be a NAMBLA meeting going on on the other side of that door. Hell there could be meth labs in ladies bathrooms, I wouldn't know because I've never randomly walked into one. I have 1 time had to stop a guy from walking into a ladies room while my wife was in there, it was a M/F couple and for whatever reason he decided he needed to help his gf pee or something, which, for all I care, he can do, just not while my wife is in there. And any changes to the law arent going to stop me from continuing to do the same.

Also, just for fun, I've been writing complaints to Target about the fact that the ladies rooms do not contain urinals.

[jakhollin]

I think this whole issue may also be a part of the entire fear of restrooms in America. I have a friend that says it is proper etiquette to not take a stall next to another man in the restroom when he is dropping a deuce even if you have to at the moment. You are supposed to go find your own stall somewhere else... I don't know how often others have to use public restrooms but I have yet to witness anything out of the norm in my adult life.

However I have been punched in the back of the head when I was younger while using the urinal so if I choose not to use the one near anyone you should understand why. Part of the reason why I can understand a dude that looks like a lady would be a little apprehensive about using a men's restroom in public. I feel worse for the boy that is transgendered in high school. Being told they have to use the men's restroom would be a very scary statement and being forced to use a unisex bathroom removes any portion of them hiding the fact they are transgendered if they were able to hide it at that point.

The fact is a restroom is intended for one purpose. Even dogs don't want you making eye contact at that part on a walk I doubt anyone else wants to do that either in a public restroom.

[TotalyMeow]

if a person is going to knock over a liquor store and it is closed chances are they are not going to adhere to oh well the sign says closed I cant go in there. What kind of broken logic suggests that a person willing to break laws is going to adhere to the rules of a sign that says gals. Hell to be honest at the bar the men's restroom has been broken before and the choices were a bush or the women's restroom and cause the bar had no women I used that one instead. Does that make me a pervert even when the bartender says hey gonna have to use the women's restroom bud.

Even with the argument some pervert tries to say hey I was just there because I think of myself as a man or woman then commits a crime a jury is going to definitely ignore any part of that argument. Hell even the cops would just ignore the person. The idea is to allow a commonly disenfranchised group a few rights in a case where everyone else is imparted too them but they are not. I am sure many transgender women are really afraid of walking into a men's restroom in fear that the irrational behavior of other men will result in them being injured.

I said my piece already but... your naivety is appalling. I have to wonder where you live and what sort of sheltered life you've led. You at least aren't a woman, which makes a big difference in perspective. Do you know that a large portion of my thoughts in some situations is calculating how safe I am at a given moment, how safe it will be for me to go somewhere or do something, the odds of my being attacked or raped and how best to avoid that fate? And I'm not unreasonably fearful, statistics and life experiences back up my caution.

You say a 'closed' sign and a law preventing going into a closed store doesn't prevent theft. No, but if all stores were, by law, required to allow people free entry after closing time, I'm betting the theft rate would rise considerably. Your illustration is ridiculous, as is your little speech about using the women's when the men's is broken. Come on. So no, the 'gals' sign isn't going to prevent all men from entering the women's but it'll sure make a big difference and anyone who sees it happen can do something about it.

Darwoth and others make the point that if you make it legal for one group to enter the opposite bathroom, you have to make it legal for anyone to. You think there's no danger there? Sexual predators will take ANY opportunity they can find to stalk their prey and it DOES already happen sometimes in same gender cases, but those are much less common perversions. And what about someone who has already been raped by a member of the opposite sex and might have a hard time just getting up the courage to shower in a locker room? You think it's okay for them to have to worry that someone of the opposite gender can legally walk into the locker room and stare at them?

Most of the time, sexual crimes don't get reported. Many that do don't get prosecuted or lead to convictions. You are naively trusting in the justice system to administer justice in cases like this and in people to report what happened or even know they should report. When I was 7 or 8 years old, I was in a bad situation at school which I fortunately escaped from unharmed, though it was creepy enough that it stuck in my mind, and I didn't tell my parents. I'd been raised to trust the adults in my life as people who should be obeyed, there's a good chance I still wouldn't have said anything even if something truly bad had happened to me, because I was a clueless child. A change in who can use what bathroom or locker room will make such situations just that much easier to arrange. Your conviction that a jury or cops are going to see through a pervert's claim that he or she is opposite gendered is assuming it's going to be a violent, obvious rape happening with screaming and witnesses coming running. That's usually not going to be the case. It's going to be more like little hard-to-see cameras, peeping tom behavior, and masturbating in the stall next door. :/

Putting aside the argument that transvestites and transsexuals probably need therapy more than they need indulgence, the number of transvestites and transsexuals in the country is ever so much less than the number of other people who might be made insecure by this or harmed by this, that I really don't see the sense in making both genders of bathroom accessible to everyone. Seriously, if I were in a bathroom and some man walked in for no discernible reason, I would be wigged out. If bathrooms suddenly no longer require use by the appropriate gender, such a person could just stand around in there all day and no one could do a thing. If it's about safety, if trans people are afraid of using the bathroom of their gender, then require places to have single occupancy bathrooms, at least one of them, in addition to whatever else they might have. Little places like gas stations will be relatively unaffected since they usually have singles anyway and bigger places can probably afford to add one.

[jakhollin]

I said my piece already but... your naivety is appalling. I have to wonder where you live and what sort of sheltered life you've led. You at least aren't a woman, which makes a big difference in perspective. Do you know that a large portion of my thoughts in some situations is calculating how safe I am at a given moment, how safe it will be for me to go somewhere or do something, the odds of my being attacked or raped and how best to avoid that fate? And I'm not unreasonably fearful, statistics and life experiences back up my caution.

You say a 'closed' sign and a law preventing going into a closed store doesn't prevent theft. No, but if all stores were, by law, required to allow people free entry after closing time, I'm betting the theft rate would rise considerably. Your illustration is ridiculous, as is your little speech about using the women's when the men's is broken. Come on. So no, the 'gals' sign isn't going to prevent all men from entering the women's but it'll sure make a big difference and anyone who sees it happen can do something about it.

Darwoth and others make the point that if you make it legal for one group to enter the opposite bathroom, you have to make it legal for anyone to. You think there's no danger there? Sexual predators will take ANY opportunity they can find to stalk their prey and it DOES already happen sometimes in same gender cases, but those are much less common perversions. And what about someone who has already been raped by a member of the opposite sex and might have a hard time just getting up the courage to shower in a locker room? You think it's okay for them to have to worry that someone of the opposite gender can legally walk into the locker room and stare at them?

Most of the time, sexual crimes don't get reported. Many that do don't get prosecuted or lead to convictions. You are naively trusting in the justice system to administer justice in cases like this and in people to report what happened or even know they should report. When I was 7 or 8 years old, I was in a bad situation at school which I fortunately escaped from unharmed, though it was creepy enough that it stuck in my mind, and I didn't tell my parents. I'd been raised to trust the adults in my life as people who should be obeyed, there's a good chance I still wouldn't have said anything even if something truly bad had happened to me, because I was a clueless child. A change in who can use what bathroom or locker room will make such situations just that much easier to arrange. Your conviction that a jury or cops are going to see through a pervert's claim that he or she is opposite gendered is assuming it's going to be a violent, obvious rape happening with screaming and witnesses coming running. That's usually not going to be the case. It's going to be more like little hard-to-see cameras, peeping tom behavior, and masturbating in the stall next door. :/

Putting aside the argument that transvestites and transsexuals probably need therapy more than they need indulgence, the number of transvestites and transsexuals in the country is ever so much less than the number of other people who might be made insecure by this or harmed by this, that I really don't see the sense in making both genders of bathroom accessible to everyone. Seriously, if I were in a bathroom and some man walked in for no discernible reason, I would be wigged out. If bathrooms suddenly no longer require use by the appropriate gender, such a person could just stand around in there all day and no one could do a thing. If it's about safety, if trans people are afraid of using the bathroom of their gender, then require places to have single occupancy bathrooms, at least one of them, in addition to whatever else they might have. Little places like gas stations will be relatively unaffected since they usually have singles anyway and bigger places can probably afford to add one.

My apologizes I thought this was an on-going conversation. You may be right as my experiences and perception of the world to not warrant any kind of fear from these situations. Perhaps there is something that is inherent with the locations that I have lived that lend my opinions to me being sheltered; however I do not see myself as being sheltered. I have been living in a heavily populated area now for several years of which I have seen many different types of people and situations. I cannot and will never see the perspective as from woman and being afraid of some public locations. However I have yet to witness or know of an occurrence in my area where an assault comes from a completely random person from the people that I know. The only people who I know have been victims of such things came from family members or close relatives and not the stranger in a public area.

As for the point of the closed store or the gals sign. All I am saying is if a person is aiming to do something illegal they are normally going to do it whether you like it or not. I do see the point in it providing an opportunity where they may not have always been one but the direct conversation is about transgendered and as I have stated before in most cases you may not even be able to know when looking directly at them.

At that point if you are afraid of some public places I would suggest giving yourself some peace of mind and learning how to use a weapon whether it is some mace or a small concealed weapon. It is your given right to protect yourself so why not purchase such a weapon so you can?

I apologize that something happened when you were younger but you probably learned something from the scenario some perhaps a lesson in recognition of potential dangers if not more. Everyone has different experiences that relate in different fashion. Neglecting to try and understand those differences is naive in my opinion.

Also understand me challenging opinions of others and debating the situation helps me refine my opinion on any given topic and possibly helps others understand. That is the basis of this entire conversation for me.

[Darwoth]

[Inotdead]

I would be happy to be able to use women restrooms.
They are always clean and neat and smell good!
As opposed to mens, goddamn, I regular a place to play snooker, and their restrooms are nearly a survival experience - with sticky floors absolutely everywhere and the smell that makes you sober pretty much instantly (but you'd wish you weren't)
I really like that establishment though

[jakhollin]

One of my favorite things in college was bias testing arguments. Now that the responses have completely evolved into nothing but pictures with no actual opinions or arguments I feel it is polite I apologize for anything that may of upset anyone.

The truth is I really didn't have much of an opinion on this this morning... But after thinking about it it more the fact is that allowing or not allowing would have to be approached on a case-by-case basis with a lot of forethought into some individuals which is completely unreliable and impractical in public and some private scenarios. So the fact is the status quo is what probably is best for this. There is no way to make one person happy without upsetting the other in this situation. However a single persons life choice should not impede the normal functions of another persons daily life just to appease a single individual.

Was a boring day of work LOL.

[TotalyMeow]

My apologizes I thought this was an on-going conversation.

Sure, but I didn't intend to continue to be part of it. It's entirely too upsetting to me that this is even something that has to be talked about.

The only people who I know have been victims of such things came from family members or close relatives and not the stranger in a public area.

Some articles that are probably legit:

http://wncn.com/2016/04/20/man-charged- ... -bathroom/

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/new ... /82379986/

http://wkrn.com/2016/04/07/man-charged- ... restrooms/

There's been some stories made up lately about this, probably to try to scare people even more, but that doesn't change the fact that it does happen quite enough already and can only get worse if letting people into the wrong bathroom becomes commonplace. And think of all the people who didn't get caught or how many offenses some of those that did might have already committed.

At that point if you are afraid of some public places I would suggest giving yourself some peace of mind and learning how to use a weapon whether it is some mace or a small concealed weapon. It is your given right to protect yourself so why not purchase such a weapon so you can?

You think my planning and thought didn't include getting mace, weapons, and running through scenarios in my mind of how I would defend myself should something happen? It's offensive that I should HAVE TO think about these things and your suggestion that I should carry a weapon as if that will surely make me safe or even make me feel safe is... misguided. I wonder how often men concern themselves with thoughts of safety vs how often women have to.

I apologize that something happened when you were younger but you probably learned something from the scenario some perhaps a lesson in recognition of potential dangers if not more.

I didn't understand it until over a decade later so no, I didn't learn anything and I am extremely grateful for that. A 7-8 year old shouldn't have to learn that kind of lesson.