Stone Hedge reparation.

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: Stone Hedge reparation.

Postby jakhollin » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:11 pm

jcwilk wrote:There's something to be said for simplicity too though... It's not too bad as is, splash doesn't kick in for a full week (or is it 2?) so you have that much time to decide whether you like it or not without suffering from splash. The only time it's somewhat excusable to have to redo your walls is if you were too drunk/stoned/tired and accidentally went one tile too far, but you have the full week to sober up and notice that :P

Besides, these aren't little temporary construction fences, they're solid walls durable enough to keep raiders at bay for hours/days... It's already overly generous that you don't have to deal with soak when it's on your claim.



it is 1 week and there are some buggy things with that. For instance me building a stone hedge beside a base wall and then coming back in a week to destroy it just so I do not have to tank a brazier for more than 2 minutes while I bust down what is left of his wall.
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Re: Stone Hedge reparation.

Postby TotalyMeow » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:46 am

jakhollin wrote:it is 1 week and there are some buggy things with that. For instance me building a stone hedge beside a base wall and then coming back in a week to destroy it just so I do not have to tank a brazier for more than 2 minutes while I bust down what is left of his wall.


That's not a bug. We added the timer so that you can't build a wall and then use it to splash in instantly. If that wall is allowed to sit there for a full week without either being bashed down or expanded over and removed, then the player is clearly not playing or doesn't care. They did have their chance though.
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Re: Stone Hedge reparation.

Postby jcwilk » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:49 am

belgear wrote:I disagree with you. I don't have time right now to spout why, but I will use this as a placeholder for my response.


Interested to hear your points when you have time
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Re: Stone Hedge reparation.

Postby belgear » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:16 am

jcwilk wrote:
belgear wrote:I disagree with you. I don't have time right now to spout why, but I will use this as a placeholder for my response.


Interested to hear your points when you have time

Some bases were built before JC took over. (One of the bases I manage currently.) In this base I have to knock out an entire stone wall so that I can update with the current defenses. Problem is, inside this stone wall is another stonewall skeleton that is used to section the base off. Having to knock out an entire 70x70 is already monstrous enough of a task let alone repair 32+ stone sections (3200 granite)
And you are right about simple being a nice thing.
Nothing simple about having to put hundreds of hours of work in (extra, mind you) just to update your base to current defense standards. (That will ever increase as people get stronger and stronger) this game already forces hundreds of hours worth of work out of people in too many places.
Overall I don't care too much about the store tool. It's the granite that is a problem
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Re: Stone Hedge reparation.

Postby jcwilk » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:32 am

belgear wrote:Nothing simple about having to put hundreds of hours of work in


Well, mind you that simple != easy, often quite the opposite. Usually paths that are simple are more difficult than paths that are complex because allowing for complexity allows you more room to optimize... But making things less difficult doesn't automatically justify the complexity. Just splitting hairs about semantics though so that it's clearer what I was trying to say by leaning towards simplicity... If it's so complex that there needs to be a technical manual on something as basic as building or tearing down a wall then that's a turn off to players who don't yet understand it, which affects the player base negatively. For things fundamental to the overall game like gluttony (particularly mid to end game gluttony), complexity is great, but for fringe things that are only relevant when you screw up in a certain situation or when the game changes, not so much.

belgear wrote:just to update your base to current defense standards


This part of the point I agree with though, the only situation where better wall management seems to be needed is when they change the rules... Everything else is the player ***** up with their decisions in some manner and being lazy about remedying it, and thus doesn't deserve pandering.

Maybe all walls on active claims could have their splash reset whenever they change wall rules so if people -really- want to rearchitect portions of their walls it's a little less painful if they get it done in the first week, though OTOH if you want to rip out all your walls to make room for new walls (eg, when they added iron walls but everyone only designed for enough room for brick) then it seems like splash would likely be helpful rather than harmful. It would make sense for adjustments to other things like braziers/torchposts/morters/etc which would likely make you want to make many small adjustments.
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