My god

[trungdle]

for new players, definitely more unplayable, because diseases alone kills the newbie hopes... no newbie will go after forum and barrel trades for cure... they'll just die and play something else... the few who like the game enough to persist will quickly learn their feedback is only appreciated when it coincides with the dev's... anything else is "tears" and not a valid opinion... the more you play the less you're willing to disagree with the devs, to the point you eventually give up being honest to your gameplay experience... and then the devs start a thread asking how can our newbies adhere more to the game??

I'm a newb, I give ideas all the time. I haven't been "teared" by devs yet. I think the secret is being reasonable and understanding. Less mocking and sarcasm, also.
I make stupid ideas all the time. When JC said he like the shifting, I stated that I clearly don't agree, we are still cool. Maybe the way you're saying it is not right? Like, this business is not the "customers are gods" you have seen out there and it require less whining and more thinking...

[MarpTarpton]

trungdle: wisest and most appreciated of all newbs. May his reign last a hundred years.

[Cheena]

trungdle: wisest and most appreciated of all newbs. May his reign last a hundred years.

+1 !

[JohnCarver]

Anybody who cannot figure out how to cure a disease in the 8+ hours it takes to kill you, was going to die and quit anyway. I have yet to see a solid argument that is contradictory to that fairly simple logic.

[Judaism]

Anybody who cannot figure out how to cure a disease in the 8+ hours it takes to kill you, was going to die and quit anyway. I have yet to see a solid argument that is contradictory to that fairly simple logic.

On my first day of Salem, I likely woudn't figure it out and die. I only found out about the wiki after 2 months orso, as I do with many games I explore it myself without outside help. In games such as Salem thats relatively hard.

[JohnCarver]

Fair enough. I would point out that you did die to a LOT of simple mistakes from this way of playing though, as I stated. The redeeming quality for yourself is that when you die, you DO NOT quit. But the point stands. Players who don't learn to use forums, outside help, or in-game friends to help get through disease. Or players who are incapable of getting to the point of curing diseases in 8+ hours of gameplay ARE going to die anyway from some 'other' aspect of Salem they refuse to research. In your case, dieing =/= quitting. But that doesn't change my mind that your mentality got you killed numerous times, and if it wasn't disease that killed them, their decision to isolate them will get them killed by some OTHER factor later. I wish everybody was like Judaism in that they could take deaths in strides, but the unfortunate thing is a lot of players quit when they die. That being said, I would rather kill them at the 8 hour mark then the 20 hour mark if they are truly too stubborn to adapt to the necessity of the wiki etc. At 8 hours they 'might' have not been far enough in that they give it another go, at 20 hours it is far less likely.

To put it more simply. If there was a button I could press that permanently killed every play who is 8 hours into Salem and has not sent PM's to other Salemites, or checked the wiki, or checked the forum... I would press that button in a heartbeat. This is not a single player game, nor is it meant to be played like one. The disease to me is as close to said button as I am going to get though.

[Procne]

Anybody who cannot figure out how to cure a disease in the 8+ hours it takes to kill you, was going to die and quit anyway. I have yet to see a solid argument that is contradictory to that fairly simple logic.

On my first day of Salem, I likely woudn't figure it out and die. I only found out about the wiki after 2 months orso, as I do with many games I explore it myself without outside help. In games such as Salem thats relatively hard.

This.
When I started playing Salem, having some HnH experience and knowing there is a wiki, I have avoided it on purpose. The thrill of discovery and experimenting made the game great in the beginning. But right now it's not possible to deal with disease without resorting to wiki. If I started the game right now with the similar mindset then I would have to give up "discovery" gameplay and just follow a guide on wiki or forum. To avoid deaths in stupid ways that the game has not warned me against. Maybe tutorial will change that and teach players enough about diseases, but I doubt that. In any case, I am against features that require the player to constantly check wiki / forum (apart from those related to player interactions, like trade)

[JohnCarver]

The cures are tooltipped and say what disease they cure do they not? Is it not 'discovery' then to figure out which diseases are presenting what sysmtoms? Surely the information got on the wiki through in-game discovery as I do not believe I shared that information so to pretend that it cannot be 'rediscovered' doesn't seem logical. All we are discussing now is if it should be 'easier' to discover it, which I think undermines the focal point of your argument if it were simply 'hover over the diseases icon and get a pop-up of what to take, or some such.

I am against features that require the player to constantly check wiki / forum (apart from those related to player interactions, like trade)

Me too. But I am also against players being able to figure out EVERYTHING without reaching out to other Pilgrims. I have tried on SEVERAL occasions to play as an anonymous noob. It has never taken any serious amount of time just asking players in town how to cure disease to find my answer. If the argument then boils down to "But I don't want to talk to people". Then my response again boils down to GTFO. If the community were so toxic that a player in-game could not easily find the answer he seeks just reaching out to his fellow pilgrim then I would lose faith in humanity but accept it for what it is. As it stands MORE often then not people cured my diseases for free, making those who could legitimately die to it all that more dumb.

[TotalyMeow]

But right now it's not possible to deal with disease without resorting to wiki. If I started the game right now with the similar mindset then I would have to give up "discovery" gameplay and just follow a guide on wiki or forum. To avoid deaths in stupid ways that the game has not warned me against.

I don't think the wiki is necessary at all. It certainly makes things easier, and that is true of many games that don't involve simply shooting monsters and playing through thoroughly explained quests. But there are often people in Providence trading or doing other things and anyone who gets diseased and doesn't know what to do about it can easily ask in area chat. Or, come here and look in the help section.

the more you play the less you're willing to disagree with the devs, to the point you eventually give up being honest to your gameplay experience... and then the devs start a thread asking how can our newbies adhere more to the game??

So... you're mad because Salem grows on people? Because once people get a little experience they either decide it's not for them, or they love it and stay forever? Salem is never going to be a huge and popular game and we're okay with that. It's meant to fill a certain niche, appeal to a certain type of person who likes a harsh world, open PvP, the chance to take a huge risk for a huge reward, etc. Like John said, a dramatic introduction to Salem with an early death is for the best.

This whole argument about disease just reminds me of earlier complaints of newbies being lured off claim just for the fun of murdering them. Nothing has changed for the worse. In fact, I'm pretty sure the general run of newbies is less likely to die before they get an idea of whether or not they like other parts of Salem.

[trungdle]

You hear that pilgrims? Stalph curing people for free JC is taking advantaged of you. Jeez and here Sky thought he is helping. He was actually curing JC alts. Poor soul, should we tell him the news?

[Salem is never going to be a huge and popular game and we're okay with that.

No. Salem is gonna be huge and popular.