Regarding this weekends events

[ElCapitan1701]

Here is what my thinking is. HnH as "******/awesome" that game was b4 salem was out hnh had a constant 500 people. I think once there is end game grinding we are going to see a ton more then that. the game is already making money with how little people are playing it. I don't think its dying any time soon.

There is the second problem. Neither the devs or the mods ( @mods, so we are on topic) have made clear that they want Salem to be a whole new game. At least the H&H community hopes just to get a H&H with no server lags and better graphics, so all there input is related to the good old H&H times. But the game concepts they love don`t fit to a large number of players. And they get most of their motivation from being superior on one server (which is why they want to be able to travel between the servers , one to rule them all), which frustrates most of the other players....The game mechanics, the attitude, the mods, may be fine - but they do not work for greater numbers. And, besides Paradox, I don`t see any good will to change that.

You need to seperate both games:
1.) H&H should be the bad ass pvp+permadeath+grind game while Salem should be the moderate pvp+trade+crafting(+grind) game
2.) Don`t allow client mods in Salem
3.) As long as there are only a few people posting in forums I don`t see why we need that much mods.
4.) Seperate forums in H&H and Salem, allowing bad manners only in H&H subforum. All new old suggestions could be moved to H&H forums, while new, more in line of Salem, could stay.

[Dallane]

What in the world are you talking about?

You need to seperate both games:

They are?

1.) H&H should be the bad ass pvp+permadeath+grind game while Salem should be the moderate pvp+trade+crafting(+grind) game

You obviously haven't played hnh or much of salem. Stop reading the over dramatized stories on the forum. Criminal scuming is not rampant as the idiots like L33LEE here are screaming about. Most of the chiefs kills you see are staged with alts. People are not leaving the game due to "badd ass pvp+permadeath". Permadeath is here to stay and its never going to leave no matter how many tears you carebears cry. There is no reason to even talk about it. The old forums even has a autolock rule for anyone asking for it to be removed until there was its own topic that was also locked.

2.) Don`t allow client mods in Salem

Impossible to do. There will always be crafty people out there able to have a edge. Its also VERY easy to learn how to rig mods

3.) As long as there are only a few people posting in forums I don`t see why we need that much mods.

You obviously are not active on the forum.

4.) Seperate forums in H&H and Salem, allowing bad manners only in H&H subforum. All new old suggestions could be moved to H&H forums, while new, more in line of Salem, could stay.

They are already?
The only reason we have this current forum and not the paradox one is because paradox is way 2 strict with rules for a drama based game.

[TotalyMoo]

would you you plz stop spaming this crap all over the place? you morons keep spewing HURRRR 70 players out of 300 keys! did we forget about time zones? half my village in active in US time and the other in euro.

I'm gonna sum this cry baby thread up to this: I can't do anything to stax(until the alliance attacks) in game so i need to attack his forums game play.

Welcome back from your vacation Dallane. Post a few more times in this manner and you'll enjoy an even longer one pretty soon.

And there's the problem. At least we know where the mods learn their unprofessional behavior from now...

I wanted to argue about this but in the end you're right. That was a badly phrased warning.

[Dallane]

I wanted to argue about this but in the end you're right. That was a badly phrased warning.

I feel abused. plz move to the mod abuse thread

[baronbowden]

Back to the topic at hand, I have to say I think in all honesty we shouldn't even be pointing fingers at the mods;)
These two statements show exactly why there will continue to be issues, and it stems from Moo's executive leadership.

Statement 1

Q: Why are moderators trolling/being mean/acting like normal users?
A: Because they are normal users. When a moderator is not writing in green text then that person is just like anyone else. No special powers, not above any rules, no nothing. That means moderators also go under normal rules when posting non-green so if you feel a rule has been broken simply report the post and I will look at it personally.
To make it super simple (forgive my bluntness, mods) they are an extension of me, five extra pair of eyes, only here to enforce rules. No customer support, no representing SeaTribe/Paradox, nothing else than modding.

This needs to be thrown out of the playbook and instead inserted

Mods will always be polite to normal users, and actively encourage noobs with warm and fuzzy feelings. Even when posting in non green they will conduct themselves with the highest integrity and you can count on the fact they will not troll you for your lack of knowledge, poorly thought out posts etc etc etc.

Statement 2

Q: The H&H mafia is running Salem! My suggestions and ideas get shot down instantly. The mods and chosen few are conspiring behind my back in the hidden forums!
A: This forum has a rough attitude towards new players and their ideas, yes. Why? Because we have seen them posted countless times. This game has been in development for a long time and SeaTribe have a very set idea on what they want it to be -- end product wise. The simple truth is that suggestions regarding drastic changes in core gameplay will most likely be overlooked by Jorbtar. We can't have too many chefs in this soup, give it time to evolve into what Jorbtar has envisioned and if you still feel the same once the product is launched, then go ahead and suggest changes.
Also, for content ideas: please check if it has been posted before.

The first part of the statement can't be anymore crazy. Running a business new customers need to feel warm and fuzzy, so you can get them sticky and engaged with your product.
Change this statement to

We are working on changing our bad attitude towards new players, and even though we may have seen your idea posted a thousand times we will treat it like the special snowflake it is etc etc

Once you change your attitude towards these things Moo, your team will fall in line and things will be peachy. Until then there is license to run wild.

Seperately, I hate to agree with Dallane but the remove Perma Death threads need to get killed, it just isn't constructive. I would suggest we issue warnings to users who post about removing perma death with a friendly reminder that it isn't in the cards and then if it comes up again from same user give them a cooldown.

[TotalyMoo]

While I do agree somewhat on the first statement I do not agree on the second one.

I emphasize the one thing I did in the original post by me. "The simple truth is that suggestions regarding drastic changes in core gameplay will most likely be overlooked by Jorbtar."

Core gameplay, like permadeath, is not going to be changed. Random things like content, new systems and all that are still most likely considered by the devs. Yet the mods don't hold any special power over Jorbtars decisions here.

Personally I never shoot down ideas and I try to always treat everyone respectfully and nice, no matter how new they are to the game. Yet I can't guarantee that other users do and the harsh reality is that most players are like that.

But on the other hand the mods should not act extra-dicky towards new ideas and players, that is correct.

[L33LEE]

Yet I can't guarantee that other users do and the harsh reality is that most players are like that.

But on the other hand the mods should not act extra-dicky towards new ideas and players, that is correct.

Most players are only like XYZ because they are allowed to be. Your game, your rules remember ?

League of legends currently the biggest e-sport online game, has undergone drastic changes to kirb/change its ever increasing huge troll player base.

More bans have been introduced, harsher punishments, in game honor systems to root out toxic behavior, however its "helped" the game massivly with its community bonding in games etc, because any kind of toxic behavior is punished swiftly.

There is a difference people use as an excuse in this game. "Politics", and toxic players are 2 separate things, and this forum should learn to recognize the differences. If this game ever want a larger and bigger community and maintain it, changes do need to be changed in your rules, period. (talking about forum rules here).

[TotalyMoo]

Yet I can't guarantee that other users do and the harsh reality is that most players are like that.

But on the other hand the mods should not act extra-dicky towards new ideas and players, that is correct.

Most players are only like XYZ because they are allowed to be. Your game, your rules remember ?

League of legends currently the biggest e-sport online game, has undergone drastic changes to kirb/change its ever increasing huge troll player base.

More bans have been introduced, harsher punishments, in game honor systems to root out toxic behavior, however its "helped" the game massivly with its community bonding in games etc, because any kind of toxic behavior is punished swiftly.

There is a difference people use as an excuse in this game. "Politics", and toxic players are 2 separate things, and this forum should learn to recognize the differences. If this game ever want a larger and bigger community and maintain it, changes do need to be changed in your rules, period. (talking about forum rules here).

We want a more free atmosphere of discussion on these forums, not a super-regulated environment. If we wanted that we would have stayed on Paradoxplaza.

That doesn't mean all subforums should have the "toxic" behavior. There are extra clear and imho pretty strict rules on certain subforums that one could argue should be more strictly enforced but not changed.

We are not judges of moral (once again I have to refer to Jorbs post http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=17900) so what you consider "toxic" players is highly subjective.

Also. LoL is not a real game, neither is it an e-sport.

[Makestro]

Yet I can't guarantee that other users do and the harsh reality is that most players are like that.

But on the other hand the mods should not act extra-dicky towards new ideas and players, that is correct.

Most players are only like XYZ because they are allowed to be. Your game, your rules remember ?

League of legends currently the biggest e-sport online game, has undergone drastic changes to kirb/change its ever increasing huge troll player base.

More bans have been introduced, harsher punishments, in game honor systems to root out toxic behavior, however its "helped" the game massivly with its community bonding in games etc, because any kind of toxic behavior is punished swiftly.

There is a difference people use as an excuse in this game. "Politics", and toxic players are 2 separate things, and this forum should learn to recognize the differences. If this game ever want a larger and bigger community and maintain it, changes do need to be changed in your rules, period. (talking about forum rules here).

We want a more free atmosphere of discussion on these forums, not a super-regulated environment. If we wanted that we would have stayed on Paradoxplaza.

That doesn't mean all subforums should have the "toxic" behavior. There are extra clear and imho pretty strict rules on certain subforums that one could argue should be more strictly enforced but not changed.

We are not judges of moral (once again I have to refer to Jorbs post http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... =7&t=17900) so what you consider "toxic" players is highly subjective.

Also. LoL is not a real game, neither is it an e-sport.

I really think you guys should allow HoB to remain as toxic as possible without it breaking any obvious things most of the community would agree on(porn, illegal ****, racism, ect). maybe clean up a thread when asked by the OP but instead of sending the trolling/**** posting/derail to Hel just drop it in a new thread and tell the people involved to keep it there. Problem solved, because the parties/players involved aren't going to take it to PM, they want to publicly embarrass one another and banning people for political blowback that is going to spill over onto the forums regardless is like slamming your head into a brick wall hopping it'll suddenly stop being brick.

Also. LoL is not a real game, neither is it an e-sport.

LoL is a real game and the player base made it an e-sport, but LoL is not even comparable to Salem and I have no idea why L33 keeps bringing all these instanced, arena and carebear oriented games up as example vs Salem, yeah Salem has a small population L33, like you said and keep mentioning there are plenty of games with a huge population where a carebear can go and be happy so why don't you just play one of those other games?

P.S. any LoL players should add me, I rarely play now that I have a real game to play but I still log on a couple times a week to get my daily win. Same name as on the forums.

[ElCapitan1701]

You obviously haven't played hnh or much of salem.

You obviously are not active on the forum.

Obviously all your assumptions are not even near reality. I`m quite sure I posted more true things with my 99 posts then you with your 700+.

You obviously haven't played hnh or much of salem. Stop reading the over dramatized stories on the forum. Criminal scuming is not rampant as the idiots like L33LEE here are screaming about. Most of the chiefs kills you see are staged with alts. People are not leaving the game due to "badd ass pvp+permadeath". Permadeath is here to stay and its never going to leave no matter how many tears you carebears cry. There is no reason to even talk about it. The old forums even has a autolock rule for anyone asking for it to be removed until there was its own topic that was also locked.

Yeah:

By insulting new players and new ideas the old H&H community (with some help from the devs) has succeeded making Salem to H&H2.

2.) Don`t allow client mods in Salem

Impossible to do. There will always be crafty people out there able to have a edge. Its also VERY easy to learn how to rig mods

I dont agree. Most MMOs do. It just needs to be much more harder to use them as the mod-clients should needed to be updated after every small server-update and players using it should be banned and losing all their money spend in Salem. This would work.

@permadeath:
I haven`t say anything about it. Permadeath makes Salem unique and makes sense. If I had to choose, I would not drop it. Nevertheless I`m still convinced you won`t get more players as long as there is this max frustrating moment. Most players will take a deep breath and come back, if there is any reason to do so. I`m just saying, there is not much reason to do so. Permadeath could also mean everything, maybe it should just be redefined...