A noob is going to quit when.....

[死]

All posts on this subject are useless as people will still leave. The core reasons as to why will never change; it can't change as that is the nature of this game.

Having the math equation analogy was mostly to present the learning behavior; those who ridicule those who are learning it have no place in the community. Yet ridiculing those who will not even try to learn, even out of curiosity, should be expected as that is simply lazy. Salem supports those trying to learn in the first place better than H&H. Mostly due to the kind folk still being around and actually supporting the community resources. Not so much the same with H&H as the resources have been up to date for a year now. People move on to other projects.

[pistolshrimp]

Am I the only one who thinks that my posts are useless?

You might be you're own worst critic.

Yep. And so some people who are close to the guy who posted the math formula ask him stuff and learn more and more about its applications. Some people who stumble upon it won't know the guy who posted it and will slowly start to know more stuff (mostly the on the surface stuff, because they have not much insight of how this formula was created). Now the ones that are very proficient will ridicule the attempts and slow progress of the least efficient and proficient ones (being like this isn't a bad thing). This is completely understandable when people behave like that (bullying) when they are not educated (like army and kids from stupid parents), but it's very sad when people who seem educated at least academically do bullying.

I think it's called Knower's Bais or something. Once we know something we take for granted other people don't know it. And this is a game where you need to know a lot to make it.

@ 死 There is a lot of purpose in the game, and I agree players need to find it themselves in order to stay. I think we also need to point them in some of the possible directions for them to go. I think that is why the forums are so important, the problem is not everyone is going to come here. The question to me is how to do you put that direction into the game without someone hitting you over the head with it.

[Procne]

All posts on this subject are useless as people will still leave. The core reasons as to why will never change; it can't change as that is the nature of this game.

The point isn't to stop everyone from leaving. The point is to convince people to invest some time to learn the game. To make a showcase of the game to tell them "this game is worth it". To make people, who would like the game if they knew what it's like, to stay.

Yet ridiculing those who will not even try to learn, even out of curiosity, should be expected as that is simply lazy.

****, I think I have to stop playing Salem then. I should go and learn about quantum dynamics, genetic engineering and neural networks. So that I'm not ridiculed by anyone.
You still don't get it. Before people start learning they have to make the decision that they want, that it's worth it. You can't expect that everyone will try to learn about everything they touch and see, and call them lazy if they don't learn.

Because there are many people out there, some probably very similar to you, who jumped into Salem or HnH, but due to being tired / not in the mood / generally busy choose not to make investigation and about the game and just jumped in. And then left because of the bad / erroneous first impression.

[死]

I think we also need to point them in some of the possible directions for them to go. I think that is why the forums are so important, the problem is not everyone is going to come here. The question to me is how to do you put that direction into the game without someone hitting you over the head with it.

Which is what I was basically explaining for our friend earlier, the new player not the older ones, on how they were hypocritical. The best thing you can do for every new player in this game is automatically re-direct them to the help section upon login and possibly to an admin-controlled help thread to drive the point home. In big o' bold letters saying "Use this section of the forum to answer all of your questions." would honestly do more good than bad. Besides, the help forum is un-flamable-ish. I'm sure making a funny and to the point tutorial would also be a wonderful nice thing, and probably help, but having player input when people get stumped after exhausting their own ability does far more.

This game caters to two types of folk: I. Sadists n' masochists. II. Learning curve beyond anything normal. That alone is appealing to few folk and already draws in the ****** elements all folk have to offer. Though, oddly enough, Salem also has attracted people willing to devout hours to making clients and guides for the poor bastards, all of us really, who can't understand mechanic x, y, or z.

You still don't get it. Before people start learning they have to make the decision that they want, that it's worth it. You can't expect that everyone will try to learn about everything they touch and see, and call them lazy if they don't learn.

Because there are many people out there, some probably very similar to you, who jumped into Salem or HnH, but due to being tired / not in the mood / generally busy choose not to make investigation and about the game and just jumped in. And then left because of the bad / erroneous first impression.

Welcome to a Seatribe game.

I'm not calling those who fail to learn lazy; once again you missed the point. I'm calling those who fail to even spend five minutes in the game and then go to the forum and complain about how **** the game is lazy. I've said this three times.

[trungdle]

Jesus I knew I shouldn't mention path finding.
But yeah, dude, as everyone else have tried to convince you, you can't blame people for not using the forum and wiki on their first day. Why you ask? Because just as you looking at them as lazy and stupid, they will look at the developers of this game as lazy asses who don't even know how to make them move properly. You get what I mean? If there is no way for you to put a little bit sympathy into their struggle, why the ***** should they do the exactly opposite thing, that is, giving the game a chance, try to stick to and learn. I found your points more ironic than mines.
But heeey not trying to open a blame war here.

[死]

Jesus I knew I shouldn't mention path finding.

[Procne]

I'm not calling those who fail to learn lazy; once again you missed the point. I'm calling those who fail to even spend five minutes in the game and then go to the forum and complain about how **** the game is lazy. I've said this three times.

Maybe you wanted to say it three times. All you said was that people who don't bother to research the game are lazy and should be ridiculed. Read again what you wrote

[死]

Already did, have, and still do not see what you are talking about. If people need to have things handed to them on a silver platter than society has failed. Sorry you can't understand that idea.

[trungdle]

Hmmmkay you guys need more coffee this afternoon. Maybe a cup of tea. Chill out and present yourself well lads.
I understand you now. In short, you want people to learn their own thing, we should not handle them, at all. Now talking about society, yes you are right. But you forget one thing. We are social creature. We learn from our predecessors. It is in our gene. You were born a baby, your family have to teach you everything, don't they? They don't leave you there and expect you to talk politic right away. And no one say our society is screwed that way.
Same thing here, you need to be taught the basic. In this case walking in a straightline, proficiencies, biles, etc are like eating, potty, talking, etc in real life. Without those knowledge, how can you survive? After being taught those, you try to get the rest, yourself. if you can't, you fail, else you thrive. Do you see my point?

[NeiroShop]

We're not talking about a silver platter. 9/10 games will show you what an item does and have a short explanation of it. Salem that is maybe 6/10 items that have some sort of description. Sometimes the description is wrong/outdated or other issues. If you believe this to be a flaw with the consumer you are obviously the kind of person who cant remember how it was starting out in Salem for someone completely new to the genre/game.

You said something about this being a seatribe game. Yes at the beginning it was a Seatribe game. We get more than a Hotfix & new texture pavement every 3 months now though.


Most MMO's also force some kind of social interaction. Here helping someone new who may or may not be Darwoth in disguise hoping to scalp you the first chance he gets, Is a risky business to say the least.
This is something id like to see getting some love & attention.

FORCE players to actually care abit about fellow pilgrims if for no other reason than to benefit themselves in some way. The new finery forge is just the 1st baby step towards it in my opinion.