Question? - Extraterrestrial

[MagicManICT]

Sorry for the long post, but I was avoiding this thread and decided to read it through and didn't want to make a bunch of posts.

I'm one of those non-believers that don't actually think faster-than-light travel is possible.

Of course, it's only theory and scientists are pretty divided over whether it's even possible in theory.

It was actually "proven" back in the mid 90s (mathematically, much like relativity before we could do exact experiments to prove it), but the concept at the time required so much power that it wouldn't be possible. Recently, a new concept has hit the table, quite literally. A physicist is working on a table top warp engine as we converse here. http://www.space.com/17628-warp-drive-p ... light.html

The idea of a 'fourth dimension' and other such things is purely Science Fiction.

The way he puts it... yeah. Though the concept of "multiple universes" (which is what he's probably thinking of) is an actual hypothesis that is being worked on and has shown as a possibility with pure math. Otherwise, space, at this point is N-dimensional. (We haven't really figured out how many boundaries there are to our existing universe that need to be calculated. Last I read, it was up to something like 17 variables and counting....)

Well my posts are supposed to make you go wat.

But they don't make anyone with a good education go Wat? They just make the person bury their face in their palm and sigh at how easy it is to lead sheep around. I think you're trying to think for yourself, but the source materials you use... yeesh. Remember, there's a huge difference between wishful thinking, possibility of it being true, and proven fact. Too much of what you post lies in the middle to the former. (I suggest you take a course on inductive logic, if you can handle it without your mind exploding.)

Thats not what it was about. It was more on the lines that space is so ***** huge that the chance of our signals reaching something out there or if they would even be listening for it would be insanely unlikely and the chance that someone would stumble on this planet in the 1st place would also be impressive.

Well, at this point, our "signals" have only reached about 80 light years out. If you want to count EM emissions from the planet (from electrical generation and motors) you can go to about 150-200 lys. This, of course, assumes those are strong enough to be picked up from millions of miles away, let alone light years. This, at most, only puts a few thousand stars in range, and of those, there's probably a few hundred planets that are habitable by "life as we know it."

Watch some PBS and educate yourself. This isn't star trek or starwars. Stop playing mass effect and get a education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Nice example. Ever read "Chariot of the Gods?" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CIY8EM?btkr=1 Effectively, the question is, what is the nature of a god? And wouldn't interstellar travelers be seen as a god by the native life form? (I've read a couple of his other books, too. Interesting postulates in them, and have formed a bit of my "universe view" after my Christian upbringing.) I read the rest of the "crap" about Ancient Aliens on History channel. Yeah, the show is crap, and the information is done on a 4th grade level, but that isn't what makes it wrong. All of it is just speculation, and unless we figure out some way to time travel or meet these supposed travelers in our own journeys, there's not really any way to prove it. The fact is how do we prove anything about ancient Mesopotamian culture? From the bits and scraps left behind archaeologists dig up. Why isn't what they say a bunch of horse ****?

But isn't a human like a ape?

Technically, it would be chimpanzee. We share about 98% of the same DNA, which is the closest living animal to humans alive.

I also want to point out that if we did find a signal or something then it was decided back in the 60s that we would ignore it.

then why did we spend millions on the Allen radio telescope array listening for possible signs of extra-terrestrial radio activity for decades? (see SETI Project)

Why couldn't aliens[...] breathe gas

Because this would be so "alien" to what we do, amirite? (Seriously, though... I get what you're saying. there are cyanobacteria that "breath" methane and other gases toxic to humans)

Because if the answers of those questions are true. Then that means aliens also have souls.

[/quote]

You should check out "cults" like the Church of Latter Day Saints and Jehovah's Witnesses. (Don't worry... I classify the Catholic church right up there, too.)

@hefferman: don't forget all the christian crusades and wars, too. It's a disease of all organized religion, not just one.

[Inotdead]

The idea of a 'fourth dimension' and other such things is purely Science Fiction.

The way he puts it... yeah. Though the concept of "multiple universes" (which is what he's probably thinking of) is an actual hypothesis that is being worked on and has shown as a possibility with pure math. Otherwise, space, at this point is N-dimensional. (We haven't really figured out how many boundaries there are to our existing universe that need to be calculated. Last I read, it was up to something like 17 variables and counting....)

People are so used to the fact, that the words "dimension" and "3d" are used to specify length/width/height that they effectively forgot what they mean.
Everything is n-dimensional, you could attribute a 4 dimensional position point to every pixel on this forum, using xpos, ypos, page adress and time as dimensions.
Dimension is an instrument, not some abstract concept.

Also time is actually an accepted norm for 4th dimension, at least in physics, same as the previously mentioned three.
But neither does it mean, that it is always used as such, nor does it have anything to do with all the sci-fi nonsense people commonly refer to by saying "4th dmension"

[Dallane]

Watch some PBS and educate yourself. This isn't star trek or starwars. Stop playing mass effect and get a education.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Nice example. Ever read "Chariot of the Gods?" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CIY8EM?btkr=1 Effectively, the question is, what is the nature of a god? And wouldn't interstellar travelers be seen as a god by the native life form? (I've read a couple of his other books, too. Interesting postulates in them, and have formed a bit of my "universe view" after my Christian upbringing.) I read the rest of the "crap" about Ancient Aliens on History channel. Yeah, the show is crap, and the information is done on a 4th grade level, but that isn't what makes it wrong. All of it is just speculation, and unless we figure out some way to time travel or meet these supposed travelers in our own journeys, there's not really any way to prove it. The fact is how do we prove anything about ancient Mesopotamian culture? From the bits and scraps left behind archaeologists dig up. Why isn't what they say a bunch of horse ****?

Erich von Däniken was proven to be a fraud and many of the stories we stole or made up in this book, one of which he admits.

The book however is interesting and entertaining.

[MagicManICT]

I found it an interesting read and a really good thought experiment. However, "proven a fraud" is hardly an appropriate comment. He was convicted of fraud (financial according to his Wikipedia article), and he wrote his second book while in prison. Sagan and others have proposed similar ideas. The only reason I don't hold his work in high regard is because he has no background in the subject matter and so may be completely missing vital information.

It's like me writing about Shakespeare. I'm a programmer (and only a shabby one at that) with a strong knowledge of math and a chemistry background (was second choice for a major... organics are what convinced me to go to other fields). I could read through his works (I've read quite a bit and did some acting in high school) and propose some wild ideas based on what was written, but that will never make them held in high regard by the rest of the world because it goes against the grain of what is accepted by literary critics that have specialized in the subject. However, sometimes it takes an outsider to shake up things and get people thinking if what is accepted is really right. Other times, those outsiders just harden the minds (more like hearts) of those trying to hold on to their ideas. (I say hearts because it's an emotional tie to some perceived need of what they accept for a universal view of life that prevents them from accepting input from too far outside that view.)

The general theory of mankind's, or any intelligent being's, limits of vision prevent them from imagining things that they have not seen*. If we hadn't seen craft flying into space, we would have never dreamed of doing so. We only dreamed of flying because we saw the birds doing so. If one accepts this school of thought as an absolute truth, then we could have never imagined of flying to the moon or to other stars as early in our history as we have unless we had encountered beings from outside our terrestrial sphere.

*The school of thought stems from Plato's cave and other concepts in philosophy. One cannot imagine what one has not glimpsed. Only when we glimpse something can we imagine greater possibilities than our current experiences. It's been too many years since I ran across the ideas and forget what the term used for it is, else I'd post some decent reading on it.

The real facts in this are up for debate, of course. We have found many items that have no explanation that can be reliably justified and that leaves many to say "may have been aliens." I was looking for a bit about a stainless steel orb that was pulled from a Pennsylvania coal mine. The orb was carved and of a grade of stainless steel unknown to man at the time it was found. The coal bed it was found in was estimated to be about 2.5 million years old, the sphere only a fraction of that age, though. I don't recall the book it was in. It was written in the 70s or 80s (photos were all black and white), and it was another of these similar type of "have aliens visited us" things and otherwise not very reliable on the facts and figures, more speculation than theory and proof. I always forget how much crap there is on the Internet when trying to find a diamond.

[Dallane]

You may want to do more research into him being a fraud.

[pistolshrimp]

Erich von Däniken is full of ****. Fact.

[Dallane]

Erich von Däniken is full of ****. Fact.

Indeed, thank you