Providence is empty and it's not good for the Game

[Claeyt]

[Serious Posts Only]

I'm going to try a serious thread here. I'm not trying to troll this one.

The Dev's have made some great changes to the game, but they've also screwed up a couple parts of some major mechanics and it's our jobs as Beta Testers to call them out on it when it happens. I just want a discussion on this thread to show the dev's what parts about these new mechanics you dislike, and I don't want to muck up the Announcement threads with it. I'm not trying to flame them or disrupt their overall good job. I just want them to see that not everyone agrees with the way some of these things have turned out.



Witchcraft has emptied Providence of people:
Providence is empty now. Everyone's afraid of being cursed and has left. Before, we used to have groups of players sitting around talking and gabbing and trading but now... Nobody. I used to love running into Embie or DOIDA in town and hear the newest happenings from the 'Town Players' as I used to call them. This is an MMO and it's going to die fast if someone can't even bring a 10 stat trading alt to town to meet other players without getting killed. I understand that the dev's don't want us to feel safe in town but it's having a negative affect on the game. I don't think that it's a bad thing for a player to feel safe going afk for 5 min's in the main trading town, or trying to type to a person they met in the game in chat without having to worry about someone cursing them while they're trying to type. This is detrimental for the game and it needs to change.

This might be just because nobody quite knows the mechanics of it yet but all of the witchcraft scents in town are a sign for everyone to leave immediately. It could be easily fixed by making it impossible or much, much harder to curse someone who's in Providence or simply standing in town for less than a half hour, say.

I remember when Roanoke, Plymouth and Jamestown would have upwards of 50+ people sitting in town yelling out prices, what they have for sale or just trash talking. This has ended completely because of this new mechanic and it's bad for the game. Something needs to change.


Stall Taxes:
I've already mentioned how much I think the 'Stall Tax' money being funneled into the top teams is a really, really bad idea. It's already given the top 3 teams 10's of thousands of silver for free just because they have the largest town. Clearly nobody's using the poop claims, like the dev's wanted, except the top teams. This is because nobody has access to a map or town locations except the top teams. This has generally frozen the ability of new towns to gain ground on the old towns. I don't think people realize how much silver is involved but it's thousands of silver going to the top teams ever day.

Both of these are happening because the dev's are either aiming for a certain play style with disregards towards other play styles or because they're used to playing with a map or a character that was able to defend against or attack anybody who might curse them or try and plant a poop claim on their town. They need to realize that the normal player in my experience is a casual 50-100 stat player who plays maybe 20 hrs a week. They need to focus on building the player base and these 2 things are not helping the Game grow.

Again, overall, I love most of the new stuff. Witchcraft seems really fun and a good idea but pretty bad for the game in the one aspect of being able to attack someone in the main trading town. I'd love to hear from the dev's about their ideas about how Providence is no longer any fun to hang out in and also how (or if) Stall Taxes funneling thousands of silver into the top towns has frozen the top teams in place and hurt up-and-coming towns. Do they plan changes, or is an empty Providence and Super-Rich towns what they want?

Again, I'm not criticizing the overall Development of the game so far. It's been great rediscovering all of the new stuff and new mechanics and some of the mysteries like how to make butterflies or take a shell off a turtle, but these 2 things and several other small things are hurting the game in my opinion.

[JohnCarver]

Once witches burn for being in town lets see how real the threat is. The threat isn't all that 'real' now, but player hysteria being what it is seems to be doing what it does. As for letting players derp around afk in town though, no, that will never be a thing. When you are playing Salem, you are at least semi-alert. That is the nature of the game.

As for the poop claims and the stall taxes. Nobody has anybody to blame but themselves. It is possible to reach the top authorities on the server in less than 2 weeks for a single CASUAL player. A dedicated group of players could be the #1 town in 2-3 days. The fact that nobody wants ot be the #1 town and get 10's of thousands of free silver is a bit depressing, but then again if players don't want to compete then I am not going to go out of my way to force them to. It certainly does not mean I'm going to stop rewarding those who ARE here to compete and take away the benefits from those who are in the competition.

[Claeyt]

Again, I'm not criticizing the overall mechanics that these 2 things are part of, and you're doing a good job overall with the development imo. I think Witchcraft as a whole is pretty awesome with amazing potential, but it's cleared out Providence and the community isn't enjoying hanging out with each other as much. These are specific problems inside the mechanics that could be fixed. Again, I think that this is mostly a misunderstanding on your part on how most players play. You played hardcore and competitive as a group to achieve what you achieved and you dev to that liking. That's awesome. Competitive players like that love that sort of stuff. I sort of play to that. Casual players who like hanging out with other casual people they meet in town and showing off their new hat they just bought from the store are also part of this game and an important part of the community. I also sometimes like doing this. Unfortunately if I'm in danger of being cursed or killed while typing in the area chat in Providence then that ruins the game for the other players not like you or me. They just want to log on to meet new casual noobs in town and play a game of Checkers.

Once witches burn for being in town lets see how real the threat is. The threat isn't all that 'real' now, but player hysteria being what it is seems to be doing what it does. As for letting players derp around afk in town though, no, that will never be a thing. When you are playing Salem, you are at least semi-alert. That is the nature of the game.

There's a difference between being semi-alert and getting cursed or killed while hanging out in town. Letting a witch curse or kill some 20 stat guy who went to take a tinkle and left his guy online in Providence is nuts. It turns off the casual town loiterers and drives them away from the game. Maybe it would take a half hour to kill him but what's better for growing the game? Letting the Witch kill the town casual or letting the casual feel safe while he hangs out in town?

Also, I may be wrong but a witch doesn't have to be in line of sight of a person to curse them does she? I thought they just 'tuned' the doll and then started the curse at home. Why would the witch have to burn in town to curse someone if they can do it remotely. If they have to be in line of sight for awhile and are going to be getting burned while it's happening then that would solve some of this maybe. At the very least some sort of visual so a player can tell when he's getting cursed or killed would be great and help players at least feel a little safer.

How long do you feel a player should be able to afk for in town without being attacked? a minute? 15 min? Should a player with no scents be able to go pee for 5 min without having to worry about logging off or getting killed?

As for the poop claims and the stall taxes. Nobody has anybody to blame but themselves. It is possible to reach the top authorities on the server in less than 2 weeks for a single CASUAL player. A dedicated group of players could be the #1 town in 2-3 days. The fact that nobody wants ot be the #1 town and get 10's of thousands of free silver is a bit depressing, but then again if players don't want to compete then I am not going to go out of my way to force them to. It certainly does not mean I'm going to stop rewarding those who ARE here to compete and take away the benefits from those who are in the competition.

It may be possible for a single casual player to build massive authority in a town but by the time he gets there, the town he's trying to replace has built even more massive authority to beat him out again. Meanwhile the casual is paying for the town while the old town has 200,000s in the bank to pay for their's and they have the casual mapped so they can put a poop claim on his town while the new player has no way of knowing where or time to find the other town.

What about some sort of other prize than silver. Why include a game mechanic that puts the finger on the measuring scale for the big old towns. Why not give them a weapon or hat or jalapenos if they're in the top 10. Something that won't make them bigger and harder to catch. Give them a free statue in their town if they are Number 1,2,3 etc... Or better yet turn their townbell into a statue showing their status. Maybe give them cool color coded jackets or sashes to show their status. They would lose those things off course if they dropped out of their place. You could do it monthly maybe.

Silver has a direct impact on the game and it gives these super-rich towns a massive advantage if they're raided or if they want to raid. They're able to buy 100,000 worth of iron immediately or coal or granite or whatever. It solidifies the competition in their favor and no game should want that as it's goal.

[Khaztropix]

Waaaah Waaaah Waaah

Shut Up Claeyt

Told.

[Claeyt]

Waaaah Waaaah Waaah

Shut Up Claeyt

Told.

Again, you guys can say I'm whining but in the meantime Providence is empty and the big towns just got richer and harder to take down. You guys have to let basic loiters and casuals be part of the game if you want it to get it big and grow it to thousands of players instead of hundreds.

I remember how Biddas started off as a barrel thief hanging around town trash talking for hours and hours until he learned the game, learned the mechanics and got better. You guys are taking away some of that ability for players to enjoy the game like they want to play it. If they want to buy a couple of hats and hang out in town pretending to be the town drunk, like Biddas did. Why stop them or hurt them for that?

[Khaztropix]

Waaaah Waaaah Waaah

Shut Up Claeyt

Told.

Again, you guys can say I'm whining but in the meantime Providence is empty and the big towns just got richer and harder to take down. You guys have to let basic loiters and casuals be part of the game if you want it to get it big and grow it to thousands of players instead of hundreds.

I remember how Biddas started off as a barrel thief hanging around town trash talking for hours and hours until he learned the game, learned the mechanics and got better. You guys are taking away some of that ability for players to enjoy the game like they want to play it. If they want to buy a couple of hats and hang out in town pretending to be the town drunk, like Biddas did. Why stop them or hurt them for that?

Who are these guys you keep referencing? Am I part of another Claeyt conspiracy theory?

[JohnCarver]

Also, I may be wrong but a witch

Yes you are wrong.

To clarify, because I do agree that people have gone 'too far' in their fear of Providence.

#1: A witch must be inside your screen distance to curse you. Once cursed she can continue to hurt you from anywhere in the world. But the initial curse requires she be very close to you.

#2: During this entire time she is dancing around in a quite obvious state. For over a minute. If you cannot realize that a witch dancing around you for OVER a minute might not be a bad thing, you simply need to click your mouse, in any direction, and cancel her curse.

#3: You could go afk on a 20 stat character for 2 hours if you wanted to in town, then simply have your curse removed, and be completely fine. A witch isn't going to permakill a 20 stat afk character in less than 2 hours.

So to answer your question, casually hanging out in town is fine as long as you are prepared to make a quick glance that nobody next to you is doing a silly dance every 60 seconds or so. This is not a 'real' problem as there was a fairly huge turnout for the dock club and weekend events. I imagine it will simply take some time before the players learn to adapt to the new risks of town.

It will only get worse before it gets better, next patch will have a new mechanic that will allow for bad things to happen in Providence.

[Claeyt]

To clarify, because I do agree that people have gone 'too far' in their fear of Providence.

#1: A witch must be inside your screen distance to curse you. Once cursed she can continue to hurt you from anywhere in the world. But the initial curse requires she be very close to you.

When you say screen distance do you mean the basic Salem client screen size or do you mean the visible spawn screen box that you can expand to see past in the other clients? Can you give us a basic distance, like: "as close as the church is to the statue" or "as close as 10 'checker board squares'."

#2: During this entire time she is dancing around in a quite obvious state. For over a minute. If you cannot realize that a witch dancing around you for OVER a minute might not be a bad thing, you simply need to click your mouse, in any direction, and cancel her curse.

This doesn't help the afk guy who just went to pee. Say he's gone, comes back and is cursed but doesn't know it and the doll is tuned to him but the witch is gone home to start the spell. Is there any way for him to tell that he's been cursed and the doll is being boiled?

#3: You could go afk on a 20 stat character for 2 hours if you wanted to in town, then simply have your curse removed, and be completely fine. A witch isn't going to permakill a 20 stat afk character in less than 2 hours.

Is there a way to tell when the witch is using your 'cursed, tuned' doll in the cauldron? If you move at all in any direction in those 2 hours will that end the curse or spell?

So to answer your question, casually hanging out in town is fine as long as you are prepared to make a quick glance that nobody next to you is doing a silly dance every 60 seconds or so. This is not a 'real' problem as there was a fairly huge turnout for the dock club and weekend events. I imagine it will simply take some time before the players learn to adapt to the new risks of town.

It will only get worse before it gets better, next patch will have a new mechanic that will allow for bad things to happen in Providence.

There's a nice turnout for the events, true, but wouldn't it be nice to come on at any time and see 100 people just hanging out and trading. Why is that such a bad thing?

[JohnCarver]

"as close as the church is to the statue"

Yes that sounds about right.

This doesn't help the afk guy who just went to pee. Say he's gone, comes back and is cursed but doesn't know it and the doll is tuned to him but the witch is gone home to start the spell. Is there any way for him to tell that he's been cursed and the doll is being boiled?

If he thinks he has been cursed then he better have it removed. Otherwise, he should type the 3 keystrokes to log out when he pees and then log back in when he returns.

Is there a way to tell when the witch is using your 'cursed, tuned' doll in the cauldron? If you move at all in any direction in those 2 hours will that end the curse or spell?

Any smart player paying attention will know if he is being afflicted by a curse. All curses have negative effects. If bad things are happening to you, you are probably cursed.

but wouldn't it be nice to come on at any time and see 100 people just hanging out and trading. Why is that such a bad thing?

Nothing stops 100 players from hanging out and trading. You are saying why not just have 100 afk people hanging out and derping around. Because I don't want AFK people cluttering up the town.

[DarkNacht]

AFKing in game has never been a good idea even in Prov. If you are AFK then log out. If you don't then I can chase/lure a snake/bear into you and laugh as the street urchins steal everything you have. Witchcraft does not really change that, if you AFK in Prov bad stuff has always been able to you. Its good people are finally learning that.

Otherwise, he should type the 3 keystrokes to log out

4 keystrokes