an ebola reminder

[tack]

we do have to worry about you syndarn because you and people like you are allowing illnesses to exist that can be wipped out with total vacination , the uk is facing an alarming rise in easily vacinated illnesses because idiots think they are more important than the rest of the people around them.

if you worked in special needs you would see the rise in children with preventable conditrions if aragant know it alls got themselves imunised against simple childhood deseses before getting pregnent.
if your american i would be more worried if i was you about the **** injected into you meat stock than whats given to you by health care workers.

thetack

[Inotdead]

Are you guys still feeding the troll?
Please stop, obesity is a serious health issue.

edt.
Mereni, despite all my enjoyment reading your replies in this thread, I have to remind you, and everyone else for that matter, that you are arguing with a guy who made this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9721

[Syndarn]

Oh god, it must be a troll. It's basically saying "I haven't done any research and I'm totally clueless but I know better. You do your research to see I'm right"

Well in your point of view you are right. But as i said, i don't need to read research on it, my own understanding is enough for myself to believe it. I don't feel like i need all the facts or small details straight. I still feel like i am in control and on top of the issue. If i start reading up on it i will find information that validates what i think. It is as simple as that. If you think that the vaccines are good for you, then there is nothing wrong with that. By all means go use them.

So if you need facts to back up your logic then do it. But bear in mind that even if what i said/my story doesn't present the facts for you directly, it does not mean automatically that i tell lies.

How i would think if i were you is:
1. This guy has experienced the negative effects on a vaccine first hand.
2. Do i know any scientific facts that back up his story and makes it possible?
3. OK if not, then clearly i am missing something or he tells lies.
4. OK so if he is telling lies, why would he do it. He is not winning anything by doing it. Actually it looks like he is making himself look stupid. -->conclusion he must be telling the truth from his perspective.
5. There fore there is some facts i don't know yet or a unknown phenomena to science that has caused what he has just told me. That makes his story valid.
6. So there must be something to what he is saying.

we do have to worry about you syndarn because you and people like you are allowing illnesses to exist that can be wipped out with total vacination , the uk is facing an alarming rise in easily vacinated illnesses because idiots think they are more important than the rest of the people around them.

So let me gets this straight.. you are saying that if you take a vaccine, you don't get sick? .. ok fine. My friends who vaccinated themselves against svine flu were sick for a week or two when they got the svine flu even if they were vaccinated. I was sick 1 day, the next morning i was fine and literally had no symptoms. I had another disease in 2012 don't remember the name, but the doctor said i need antibiotics to get cured. I said screw that and didn't take it. I still healed in record time all by myself, without taking any medicine. The doctor was surprised. Needless to say i am quite proud of my immune system.

if you worked in special needs you would see the rise in children with preventable conditrions if aragant know it alls got themselves imunised against simple childhood deseses before getting pregnent.
if your american i would be more worried if i was you about the **** injected into you meat stock than whats given to you by health care workers.

Yeah i know, i grow organic crops at home. The situation is actually quite sad. Around 80% of our immune system is actually located in our stomach area and when we eat crap food with a lot of preservatives, our immune system acts upon the pesticides and preservatives in the food putting our bodies on a heavy load, so we are more susceptible to diseases because our immune system doesn't have its fullest attention on a flu or some other disease we got infected with. But i don't really want to debate that.

[Procne]

How i would think if i were you is:
1. This guy has experienced the negative effects on a vaccine first hand.
2. Do i know any scientific facts that back up his story and makes it possible?
3. OK if not, then clearly i am missing something or he tells lies.
4. OK so if he is telling lies, why would he do it. He is not winning anything by doing it. Actually it looks like he is making himself look stupid. -->conclusion he must be telling the truth from his perspective.
5. There fore there is some facts i don't know yet or a unknown phenomena to science that has caused what he has just told me. That makes his story valid.
6. So there must be something to what he is saying.

You know, you could use this line of thinking to "prove" that "there must be something" to what every single person says on the internet. You made a logical fallacy between point 4 and 5. Just beacause you believe it's truth from your perspective doesn't mean "there is some facts i don't know yet or a unknown phenomena to science that has caused what he has just told me". And it surely doesn't mean your story is valid.

How I actually think:
1. This guy has experienced the negative effects on a vaccine first hand. Or at least he believes so.
2. He is now making sweeping generalizations about all vaccines. Therefore he is unreasonable.
3. Are there cases of vaccines having bad effects on someone? Sure there are.
4. Are there cases of vaccines having positive effects? Sure there are.
5. Despite having no knowledge about vaccines and judging only by his own experience, he stick to his own version, completely ignoring what everyone else says.
6. Therefore he is even more unreasonable
7. Why is he even coming here to talk if he's going to ignore everyone?

So let me gets this straight.. you are saying that if you take a vaccine, you don't get sick? .. ok fine. My friends who vaccinated themselves against svine flu were sick for a week or two when they got the svine flu even if they were vaccinated. I was sick 1 day, the next morning i was fine and literally had no symptoms. I had another disease in 2012 don't remember the name, but the doctor said i need antibiotics to get cured. I said screw that and didn't take it. I still healed in record time all by myself, without taking any medicine. The doctor was surprised. Needless to say i am quite proud of my immune system.

your friends got swine flu? You got swine flu too? How were you diagnosed?

[Syndarn]

How I actually think:

Follow up questions for you:
2. He seems unreasonable. But why does he think that all vaccines are bad. How has he come to think this way?
3. If there are bad affects on some people, why do "they" sell it and give it knowing that their product is flawed and can cause someone harm?
4. Okay. How much do vaccines really help the human vs naturally healing and at what cost?, also taking into account the previous question.
5. So if he is doing this, then there must be a very strong core belief or reason that is backed up by something that makes him think he is right.
6. Or is he, he is reasoning right now with me on this forum.
7. Why is he so passionate about it? He clearly believes he is right and is trying to help, sadly most people apparently ignore what he writes.

[Inotdead]

Procne, please don't answer to this, let it die here. It's like me arguing with Claeyt all over again.

I swear to God, if I weren't a lazy ass, I could have written a bot to argue using the exact same pattern these guys use, look, it's a very simple algorithm:

1) Answer to the points of the post the person didn't address
2) Misinterpret the points the person did address
3) Ignore the points to which the above two rules are not applicable

[Syndarn]

your friends got swine flu? You got swine flu too? How were you diagnosed?

My mother got the svine flu from a construction worker that was renovating our home. She got rushed to the intensive care unit and actually almost died. The doctors actually were gonna let her die, because she is also suffering from MSA which they can't cure so they saw it fitting to end her life there, so i had to actually step in and force the doctor to put her back on a medical ventilator so she would survive, so i had to save her life. Which in itself was ***** traumatic when you look real time at the blood oxygen saturation dropping below 70 because of her lungs being full of fluids and CRP close to 200. Talking about crap healthcare. Anyway during this she was diagnosed with it, shortly after she got sick me and my dad got it from her, my sister had already had it a few years back so she didn't get sick.

[Procne]

You're right Inotdead

[Hose]

Syndarn has downz, end of the discussion

[Syndarn]

The only reasons he listed were his own bad experiences. Not allowing the thought that it might have been coincidence, bad luck, someone's error or simply that fact that vaccine had nothing to do with the bad experience, as well as making sweeping generalization about all vaccines based on this single case, and not even based on other people examples (since you have stated you were not bothered to check anything yourself and just assumed that if have then you would find proves for your theory) perfectly answer the question to me.

It does not prove that every vaccine is dangerous, but it does not prove that every vaccine couldn't be potentially dangerous.

3. If there are bad affects on some people, why do "they" sell it and give it knowing that their product is flawed and can cause someone harm?

If the bread has bad effect on some people why do they sell it? Are you playing dumb now or do you really believe this argument?

Are there cases of vaccines having bad effects on someone? Sure there are.

Well you just said that there are cases of vaccines causing bad effects on someone. So then we can conclude the the vaccine product is not perfect and is therefore flawed because the intended effect was not reached on this single person. So if the vaccine can potentially harm someone why does the FDA approve of it and say it is safe even when it has a potential to clearly not be. Might it be money money money? Nice business idea, getting money from people who aren't sick, but making them think they will be and have to rely on a vaccine. don't you think?

4. Okay. How much do vaccines really help the human vs naturally healing and at what cost?, also taking into account the previous question.

How about the fact that we no longer fall sick from diseases that decimated whole populations few centuries ago?

Okay so this is solely the vaccines that helps us in this then? are you completely certain that there are no other factors involved? that could be better than what the vaccine offers us?

5. So if he is doing this, then there must be a very strong core belief or reason that is backed up by something that makes him think he is right.

The terrorist that blows himself up to kill 20 other people also has very strong core belief that there are 72 virgins waiting for him. Which does neither mean he is right nor what he is doing is right.

Well it is quite right in his mind and reality yes. That doesn't mean that i couldn't be altered and showed another path.

6,7 Your reasoning is "I have a strong belief therefore I'm right"

So i am unreasonable when i generalize all vaccines?, why am i unreasonable. Well you are saying there is NO WAY that Syndarn could be right, because then i would have to change my belief about everything and that would make me feel uncomfortable and i would be way out of my comfort zone. All of my facts would suddenly be void and i would not feel like i am in control, it would lead to a state of powerlessness within me, therefore i don't want to give him any credit in what he is saying and just explain everything away and stare blindly in what the FDA and CDC is saying.