The PVP MegaThread

[Potjeh]

The idea that somebody who murders a man, for whatever reason he thinks is just, is not still murder is a bit silly to me.

Castle doctrine bro.

'A Player should be allowed to break into my base & kill my character if he......"

I'll hypothetically answer this question for you in a few ways to get the discussion started:

'...is in the top 10% humors on the server'
'...has purchased a cannon that cost 5,000 silver'
'...has gotten a player to full membership status in my town'
'....has my scent'

Wait, any one of these, or all of the above? Neither seems right to me.

[thais]

A Player should be allowed to break into my base & kill my character if he...... has my scent.


5,000 silver isn't a lot. the rolling pin itself costs way more than that...

[RonPaulFTW]

I seriously hope the new gluttony and purity systems allow for a very quick recovery when losing a main, since it sounds like there'll be a lot of that going on. And with emphasis being put on proficiencies for crafting, and proficiencies being strongly limited by inspiration gain (including potions, they're no walk in the park to spam) , I think it could potentially be pretty painful to do anything ingame. Attacking gets you killed, defending gets you killed, seeking to regain what you lost gets you killed, scratching your nose (possible future patch content?) gets you killed.

From what I can piece together I think people would be foolish to ever go anywhere near combat with their 1-2 main characters - who wants to lose a 700 TN character - but pk alts are going to be a lot easier to make and replace. Also with murder retaliation becoming easier I suspect most crimes will be committed on characters that can be replaced in 1-2 weeks.

The idea that somebody who murders a man, for whatever reason he thinks is just, is not still murder is a bit silly to me.

Players who advocate such a thing are really advocating for the ability to murder a player without having to be held accountable for said action.

If you do not want to be 'retaliated' on for murdering a player, then dont' kill him.

Okay, I guess murdering someone for revenge should have a cost attached to it, will have to be a young vigilante's duty. Heroes always die young :\

But then there leaves the issues presented by Procne and Feone. You can't even fight back without facilitating your own demise. Should you be capable of ending the fight temporarily by KOing your attacker to get away, you've pretty much sealed your fate already. Stealing your own goods back from the thief that stole them in the first place will, by the sound of it, also allow for your summon killing.

I seriously hope the new gluttony and purity systems allow for a very quick recovery when losing a main, since it sounds like there'll be a lot of that going on. And with emphasis being put on proficiencies for crafting, and proficiencies being strongly limited by inspiration gain (including potions, they're no walk in the park to spam) , I think it could potentially be pretty painful to do anything ingame. Attacking gets you killed, defending gets you killed, seeking to regain what you lost gets you killed, scratching your nose (possible future patch content?) gets you killed.

Salem is not the game for pacifists. I think you have to be prepared to kill someone breaking into your base. And from what I outlined above - everyone should keep a couple combat alts around for defense even if they don't intend in leaving scents.

All that being said - if we were able to choose among multiple punishments (and magnitude) when over a kod body - you might see defenders choose one that doesn't leave murder scents. Leaving someone in the stocks for two weeks - or some interesting game theory might develop around ransoms to get out of jail. If I set the ransom at 5k silver will he pay it instead of leaving his alt to rot for perpetuity? Can I get away with 6k?

Imagine if I was an attacker and I caught your 700TN scent less character - maybe I want to set a 30k silver ransom instead of murdering.

[Feone]

How about another solution.

Both attackers and defenders leave scents when fighting. (For any committed crime.) With the twist that crimes can be cancelled out against eachother.

Player A tries to KO player B, fails and gets KOed. Player B uses the scent A left when attacking to cancel out the scent of the KO.

Player A tries to break into the base of Player B. Player B KO's player A. Player B uses the waste scent to cancel out the KO scent essentially forgiving the crime as justice has been served.

It'd be a choice, either cancel out the "self defense" crime by forgiving the attackers crime as well or use the scents the attacker left to get revenge, in which case the defenders crimes would stay as well.

[Kandarim]

One thing I'm interested in: as far as I read between the lines in your post, you stipulate that it should be possible for people to break into my base, steal everything AND murder my main character (which has not left ANY scents - summonable or other- since the server start) all while I'm not even there and have no possibility to defend myself beyond the passive defences which can occasionally be breached through bugs. I'm okay with this risk on hunter/combat alts, but as it stands now with the high skills and (current) glutton system, your main character only gets more important and more important as time goes on.

[Pildream]

It took months for me that I had not a set up base or a group of people to help me, to level my main toon to a middle level..

why should someone have the right to have the last word if I live or die if I have not made any mistakes like committing crimes ?

you should also consider that there are experienced and well supplied people that can raise a character pretty fast, but the majority ( i believe ) of players do not have the necessary means to do so . Specially new players .

[Thor]

Yes I was pretty much going to say what Kandarim said, but I was too lazy to read the whole thread through if someone said it already =P

[JohnCarver]

One thing I'm interested in: as far as I read between the lines in your post, you stipulate that it should be possible for people to break into my base, steal everything AND murder my main character (which has not left ANY scents - summonable or other- since the server start) all while I'm not even there and have no possibility to defend myself beyond the passive defences which can occasionally be breached through bugs. I'm okay with this risk on hunter/combat alts, but as it stands now with the high skills and (current) glutton system, your main character only gets more important and more important as time goes on.

Not exactly true. Only players who left scents should be subject to death while offline. Good-standing citizens should not have to worry themselves with such things.

[Potjeh]

So are your listed conditions *all* required? Ie, will only top 10% characters be able to exact revenge on characters whose homestead has top notch defences?

[JohnCarver]

So are your listed conditions *all* required? Ie, will only top 10% characters be able to exact revenge on characters whose homestead has top notch defences?

Those were simply examples for players so they could discuss which ones they felt were fair and balanced and which ones were not. They are not necessarily concrete figures or ideas.