The PVP MegaThread

[RonPaulFTW]

Are all the existing summon able scents today - equally useful to a one week character out for revenge? Can you be just as easily killed for stealing as waste as murdering?

Do you think there should be punishment-less-than-death for the lesser crimes?

With the material goods being so much more now adays, I'm less convinced that you couldn't do as much damage by stealing golden geese as you could a killing blow.

That's a good point about geese. In theory I think the lesser crimes should have lower punishments - but I'm not sure what the mechanics would be. Maybe town stocks, or imprisonment in a town jail until returning stolen / destroyed goods twofold.

I'm more secretly hoping for a ranger profession that doesn't devolve into tit for tat murders. I was thinking maybe you hire the experienced cannoneers to break into the base (committing only waste) but then send in the one week alt for the final kill.

[ImpalerWrG]

Are all the existing summon able scents today - equally useful to a one week character out for revenge? Can you be just as easily killed for stealing as waste as murdering?

I would really like to see more of a thieving game and to make that viable we need more nuanced punishments for each crime. So long as Theft receives the ultimate punishment that won't develop. Punishment short of death could work, or characters inheritance efficiency could vary based on the crime for which they died.

Also could the person using the evidence to summon, can they perhaps choose between different levels of punishment? If they go for some lower level of 'just' punishment they are not themselves vulnerable, but they can at their discretion go 'Medieval' on your ass and go for maximum punishment at the cost of becoming a criminal themselves. This would keep decisions in the hands of the attacker but give the potential for some gradation.

[Blood]

I know it doesnt fit into the current salem theme, but you could have it for lesser crimes of theft, battery etc that the summon action only summons a chest containing the characters gear/random assortment of valuable stuff from their base/leanto. Make it leave no scents for the summon as a sort of stripping you of possessions.

I've never been a fan of being able to summon someone and kill them because they stole something, ok there was cattle rustling punishable by death, but for stealing food or money it was generally imprisonment or chopping off hands/whipping something like that. You wanna steal sure go ahead but your gonna get a beating that will make your character weaker for a long time if caught (maybe even lose the skill if caught). Just my 2 silver.

[JohnCarver]

We had a pretty sophisticated system hashed out of "Cripple". The premise was that less crimes would allow you to provide a good-ol-fashion beat'down on their sleeping character in the leanto. This would leave them 'crippled' causing issues depending on which body part was crippled.

Opposition to this was primarily driven by the revenge motive of "If he stole my golden goose then I deserve to kill him for good". Or 'If I went through the entire hassle of a cannon to get in here, I deserve the kill'. Etc. etc.

This is what put us back to the summon-kill only system. But doesn't mean I'm still not open to the idea of lesser punishments.

[RonPaulFTW]

We had a pretty sophisticated system hashed out of "Cripple". The premise was that less crimes would allow you to provide a good-ol-fashion beat'down on their sleeping character in the leanto. This would leave them 'crippled' causing issues depending on which body part was crippled.

Opposition to this was primarily driven by the revenge motive of "If he stole my golden goose then I deserve to kill him for good". Or 'If I went through the entire hassle of a cannon to get in here, I deserve the kill'. Etc. etc.

This is what put us back to the summon-kill only system. But doesn't mean I'm still not open to the idea of lesser punishments.

This idea gives best of both.

Also could the person using the evidence to summon, can they perhaps choose between different levels of punishment? If they go for some lower level of 'just' punishment they are not themselves vulnerable, but they can at their discretion go 'Medieval' on your ass and go for maximum punishment at the cost of becoming a criminal themselves. This would keep decisions in the hands of the attacker but give the potential for some gradation.

Choose between 3 days in providence stocks, jail with x bail, cripple, murder, etc...

Let the avenger choose what punishment best fits the crime - with there being consequences to the avenger for choosing harshly.

[JohnCarver]

Yes, Avenger chosen punishment with the choice determining the scent left by the avenger does sound like something I'm taking from this thread and applying to what we have now. No promises but it sounds well enough on the surface for further though.

[ImpalerWrG]

Yes I can certainly get that notion that "I" should judge if he deserves to die. I think it was Neitzche who said "Every debt can be repaid by the pain of it's agent". In the Merchant of Venice any monetary debt can be repaid by taking the flesh of the victim, and it is the creditor that can choose to take as much or as little as they wish. Putting the punishment level into the hands of the aggrieved party (with scents) is the only way people will be satisfied with changing the current system. It even presents the opportunity for mercy (not that we are likely to see much of that in this game).

[RonPaulFTW]

Can you explain more your thoughts around how you will dissuade / prevent attackers from leveling a base to nothing?

[kai]

Yes, Avenger chosen punishment with the choice determining the scent left by the avenger does sound like something I'm taking from this thread and applying to what we have now. No promises but it sounds well enough on the surface for further though.

How about instead of killing you can ransom the person for the lessor crimes?
Asking for the value of any stolen items with interest and the hassle to break in. if its not paid they rot in your dungeon. payable by anyone for release.

[alagar]

You should remove the summon system and let the fight be in real PvP only, making players raid each other until they finally met in a "final battle" or until one get K.O on claim.