Base destruction

[Dallane]

I think he's just worried that if you ever need to redesign your base, you'll need to be a titan...

Do you see anything illogical here?

No. My personal opinion is that we shouldn't have to plan for 6 different wall types in our initial layout.

I also think we shouldn't have to move to a new base once we want to upgrade a wall layer because it is so difficult to destroy one.

Perhaps the solution is for you to EXPAND a base instead of trying to rebuild?

[ImpalerWrG]

This was more of a problem in Haven&Hearth when bashing down the wall was the same for both the defender and the attacker, but here in Salem the attacker has to deal with the Braizer fire so they have a significantly harder time.

It's the soak value on objects that's relevant here so you could allow anyone with Vandalism privileges to just ignore thouse values, that would cover a lot of non-town cases as well.

[Dallane]

This was more of a problem in Haven&Hearth when bashing down the wall was the same for both the defender and the attacker, but here in Salem the attacker has to deal with the Braizer fire so they have a significantly harder time.

It's the soak value on objects that's relevant here so you could allow anyone with Vandalism privileges to just ignore thouse values, that would cover a lot of non-town cases as well.

You want to make infiltration easier for people?

[Trenial]

You want to make infiltration easier for people?

[KruskDaMangled]

I'm more in the camp of explosives as a very, very expensive siege option that is also dangerous and unpredictable, that works. Nothing so sophisticated as TNT. This is the 17th century. We should get Petards/Big Dumb Barrels with Powder. Black Powder, mind you. They would be a bit dangerous in that you would never be quite sure when they would explode, or even if they would. Even at relatively high skill levels (I'm guessing sparks and embers?) You wouldn't have a precision instrument, more a Big Dumb Barrel, with Black Powder in it.

Get in, get out, hope it works right.

Maybe braziers would have potentially Fun interactions with them? They do shoot fire.

I feel like having them potentially explode the barrel is no fair, maybe have a critical hit light the fuse? It would be your fault if you went in with a very short fuse and it got lit early in your hands without time to get away.

[Trenial]

Cannons are the ticket, enough with the guile beging mechanic requests. You want in, blast your way in, you want to rearrange your town? Blast it down.

[KruskDaMangled]

Cannons are the ticket, enough with the guile beging mechanic requests. You want in, blast your way in, you want to rearrange your town? Blast it down.

Cannons should also be a thing that is tempermental as hazardous. Make sure you construct it with materials you know to be pure kids! Wouldn't want it to explode and KO your character during a siege now, would you? I would also think that character skills and prof would be relevant. It would be relatively safe most of the time, but not safe enough to you know, stand next to without being made by a character who knew what they were doing. And you wouldn't know except maybe in a broad way which it was.

The way you would know something was wrong would be when it exploded or cracked because of errors in the construction process.

Also, dubious and comical Log Cannons. Which would be kind of bad, but cheaper. All you would really need would be probably one of several kinds of trees, and some banding (probably 8-9 Iron bars).

Oh, and cannonballs. Probably for this kind the crude, stone ones just to reserve the "good ones" for the real cannon more than anything.

It would be somewhat usable against low tier walls, but pretty bad against any real wall. (It's wooden, it shoots rocks. Of course it's bad.

You could also have an element of risk with all cannons (and hey why not muskets?) by being able to voluntarily put in more powder. At some point with even the best cannon or gun, it's clearly a bad idea and setting off a bomb in your hand/next to you, but between that and a "sensible" load (which would not be specified upon introduction of cannons, but rather figured out through comical explosions) you could gamble a little and make more progress. Milder generic failures or ones caused by low amounts of increased powder would damage or disable the cannon. Bigger ones would KO everyone for a fair distance around the cannon/do a lot of damage, and totally destroy the cannon.

[Feone]

Cannons are the ticket, enough with the guile beging mechanic requests. You want in, blast your way in, you want to rearrange your town? Blast it down.

Cannons should also be a thing that is tempermental as hazardous. Make sure you construct it with materials you know to be pure kids! Wouldn't want it to explode and KO your character during a siege now, would you? I would also think that character skills and prof would be relevant. It would be relatively safe most of the time, but not safe enough to you know, stand next to without being made by a character who knew what they were doing. And you wouldn't know except maybe in a broad way which it was.

The way you would know something was wrong would be when it exploded or cracked because of errors in the construction process.

Also, dubious and comical Log Cannons. Which would be kind of bad, but cheaper. All you would really need would be probably one of several kinds of trees, and some banding (probably 8-9 Iron bars).

Oh, and cannonballs. Probably for this kind the crude, stone ones just to reserve the "good ones" for the real cannon more than anything.

It would be somewhat usable against low tier walls, but pretty bad against any real wall. (It's wooden, it shoots rocks. Of course it's bad.

You could also have an element of risk with all cannons (and hey why not muskets?) by being able to voluntarily put in more powder. At some point with even the best cannon or gun, it's clearly a bad idea and setting off a bomb in your hand/next to you, but between that and a "sensible" load (which would not be specified upon introduction of cannons, but rather figured out through comical explosions) you could gamble a little and make more progress. Milder generic failures or ones caused by low amounts of increased powder would damage or disable the cannon. Bigger ones would KO everyone for a fair distance around the cannon/do a lot of damage, and totally destroy the cannon.

Sounds like a good idea.

Traditionally cannons were pretty dangerous things, poorly constructed ones would definitely be prone to exploding.

Bad cannons tended to explode early on but once a cannon had seen some use they wouldn't explode as often. (Presumably due to the non-exploded ones being of good construction.) However, wear would eventually cause issues too.
Improper loading or bad ammo also caused a large risk of explosion.

Having this element of risk with cannons would really make it a high-end skill. Pure iron, high proficiency crafters and possibly skilled handlers too. Oh, and ofcourse peasants to light the fuse, who cares if they blow up.


Something that could be considered also is the tactic of setting gates on fire. During a siege, piling flammable materials onto a gate, lighting it and waiting for the fire to weaken it in order to bash trough at a later time.

[ImpalerWrG]

The just announced increased wall soak values do add weight to Rons request, though we don't know how much the soak will go up by.

I do NOT like the idea of using the games siege mechanics (what ever form they may take) as the means to take down your own walls, their is no justification for an internal remodeling to consume the resources that siege warfare would or SHOULD entail.

That being said making different tiers of cannon, maybe several, would be great as well as 'overloading' anything that uses gun powder for higher damage at the risk of backfire/explosions is doubly great.

[Trenial]

In my design document was the following regarding the cannons:

3 Tiers, each having a pro and a con, and part of the recipe requires a imported stall item:

Cast Iron Cannon
Steel Cannon
Bronze Cannon

Iron the worse and most dangerous to use, albiet best damage.
Steel a perfect balance
Bronze least damage, but least chance of a critical failure

In all events, a critical failure would render you KO on the spot, and the cannon destroyed, wich could greatly change the field and moment and draw a few tears.

When firing any cannon there is a small chance to obtain a soote flake. when firing the bronze cannon there is a minute chance of obtaining a power S&E inspirational

Dmg of all cannons was cannon type + S&E prof + YB.
Cannon aim and reload speed was cannon type + S&E prof + Phlegm.
Reloading a cannon required a 2 handed swab equipped, crafted from 10 blocks, 2 cloth, 8 string.
a direct hit(non aoe) that did not KO a character did a die(die is always comparable to BB, no matter how high or low) check against total BB / current BB, if fail, apply "Shock" debuff which would tell the player he has been hit severely and his nerves are in shock. Movement speed increased slightly, aiming/reloading a cannon or gun speed debuffed, combat dmg debuffed, total BB slightly debuffed. To remove "Shock" required the skill "Leadership" unlocked by having Rights of Englishman, Arist Logic, Firearms which gave the new Manuever: "Rally!" Rally would cost quite a great deal of BB.

There were also two versions of the Cannon, the assault and the defense.

An Assault cannon did moderate damage to players, and severe damage to structures.
The defense cannon once built could not be moved, nor lifted. Defense cannon shots do not collide with objects with a soak value(kinda obvious as to why)