On the camera

[loftar]

The camera is clearly one of the things being complained about most often. I've already had discussions about it on IRC and such several times and not wanting to repeat myself constantly, I've started brushing the issue off; but clearly there are people who haven't been part of those conversations, so I thought it might not hurt to recap the arguments for everyone to see.

The camera issues I've seen different people gripe about fall into a couple of broad categories:

"I want a 1st/3rd person camera" -- In principle, I don't disagree much with this*, but it's just not technically feasible, or at least not at this time. The client does not know about objects further from it than some 40 meters or so, and changing that to increase the possible view distance would require very major reworks of not only the basic world model and protocol, but also of the client, to be able to draw so many objects as viewing farther ahead would entail. It's not as if I have no plans or thoughts about how this could be done, but it is nevertheless quite a large operation that cannot be prioritized in the foreseeable future. Lacking the necessary view distance, a camera that shows further ahead than what the client has information about is just too ugly to be taken seriously. There are people (like sabinati) who promote the FreeCam, but I just can't take it seriously, having large structures like trees, churches and houses pop in and out only a bit before my character. To conclude, I wouldn't mind (in fact, I'd love) a camera which lets you see much farther, but at this point it just isn't technically feasible.

"The rotation of the camera bothers me" -- I implemented the camera rotation partly because I think it helps with not having to rotate the camera manually all the time, and might relieve people who don't have a middle mouse button at least somewhat; and partly because I don't like the world being presented from a "canonical" angle which becomes the standard view of everything. However, I can see people not liking it**, and I don't at all mind the idea of being able to turn autorotation off. I am planning to implement that option once the client gets some kind of Options Menu. We'll be reworking the client UI rather shortly, so I'll probably add it along with that. I'm not sure which behavior to make the default.

"The camera angle makes me nauseated" -- I generally concede that, even given the basic camera structure as a top-view 3rd person camera with limited visibility ahead, the camera angle feels less than optimal somehow, but neither I nor other detractors of the same problem seem to be able to pinpoint just what is wrong with it. The recent camera changes I made were intended to address this problem somewhat, but I'm not sure to what degree they succeeded in doing so. I think they were an improvement, at least. The intention was to get the camera to descend lower when zooming in, so that one's own character can be seen better "in its full length", so to speak, rather than from steeply above. I was looking at a video of another MMO at one time, and whatever one may think of that game in general, it seems its camera has about the same perspective as the Salem camera while nevertheless being somehow more pleasant, and I can't make out just how. If anyone has any thoughts on the subject, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

Those are the general complaints I've seen. If you have any other constructive thoughts on the subject, please do present them. :)

* I would, however vastly prefer a 3rd person camera for the record; the thought of a 1st person camera, entailing not seeing one's own character in a RPG, strikes me as an odd thing to aspire to.
** There are certain cases where I mind it, too.

[Potjeh]

You should move the camera a bit sideways at close zooms, so the character's head isn't in the way.

And I don't think that freecam would be that bad with some fog to make object appearance a bit more gradual-

[loftar]

And I don't think that freecam would be that bad with some fog to make object appearance a bit more gradual-

That is quite arguable, but normal distance fog wouldn't work from above (everything would be covered in fog and the whole screen would be white). I intend to experiment a bit with fog in some kind of future to see if I can find some model that works.

[Onionfighter]

I think ender's freecam is great. And yes the auto turning effect sucks, and leads to disorientation or worse.
I understand that this is a game, so I am ok with things being out of render distance, then popping into view suddenly.

[Potjeh]

Can't you make the fog simply fade away at a certain level above the ground?

Also, clear centre, and a sharp increase near the edges of the view.

[loftar]

Can't you make the fog simply fade away at a certain level above the ground?

I'm not sure, since I haven't yet tried to formulate any mathematical model for drawing it. It's one of the things I was intending to try. :)

[Tonkyhonk]

However, I can see people not liking it**, and I don't at all mind the idea of being able to turn autorotation off. I am planning to implement that option once the client gets some kind of Options Menu. We'll be reworking the client UI rather shortly, so I'll probably add it along with that.

this is all i want about the camera for now, i think. thanks.
i dont mind which gets to be the default as long as the options menu shows the option clearly.
reminds me the first time i changed my camera setting to fixator.

[sabinati]

fog should be calculated based on distance from character, not from camera. thanks for posting this thread.

[sabinati]

normal distance fog

this does add a nice atmosphere, btw

e: check out what they are doing in sir, you are being hunted: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/sir-you-are-be ... 515p1.html

[Ass_Kraken]

"The rotation of the camera bothers me" I am planning to implement that option once the client gets some kind of Options Menu. We'll be reworking the client UI rather shortly, so I'll probably add it along with that. I'm not sure which behavior to make the default.

Thank you. Personally, I use the default camera, just because I despise constantly adjusting my angle and seeing that blackness. I find the camera angle to be fine, personally.