the 420 corner

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That poster is awesome, I could see high times replicating it for a centerfold. My music tastes never included much hip hop or rap , but admittedly after I started smoking it started. Just kind of seems to be popular with stoners the same way techno is with tweakers. Not alot either, do love the kottonmouth kings though, I took sab to see them on the mile high tour 2 years ago. Awesome show, but PA is one of those states clayet just referenced so it was pretty scaled back....

[HouseLaLaurie]

It's decriminalized for recreational use within the city limits of Detroit, and pretty much all of Wayne County turns a blind eye (except on Belle Isle, which is now a state park). I believe it's due more to the strain on resources than true reform, however. We can't afford to jail nonviolent criminals who don't owe money. Don't worry, the rest of the US will catch up to our level of suck soon enough.

[MagicManICT]

I'm interested in the socio-economic impacts over the long term so I haven't checked up on the situation in a while. Never heard of a stoned person shooting, stabbing or assaulting someone but I can't say the same for drunks. I have heard of a lot of stoners never getting work though.

It happens (I won't say that it was pure weed the guys are high on or if they're smoking wet, though). And yeah, those damn piss tests....

Industrially it seems to produce what is perhaps the best natural fiber. Making paper from the fibers also seems like a much better alternative than the current method of using pulpwood. I think a lot of the other proposed uses are marginally useful if not outright unreasonable however.

The numbers I saw years ago put the modern day cost of paper production at around 1/3-1/2 of wood production and made several assumptions. (This was before large scale paper recycling, early 90s, which has kept paper and wood product prices lower than they could be otherwise). I'm not sure if there are numbers available now because of the amount of paper recycling going on in the US. Most recent site I saw on this at a quick search was from the late 90s. Other information is very dated or not reliable.*

The story I heard, and I've never dug up if it's true, was that the big lobbyist pushing to criminalize marijuana was Dow chemical who had the patents to the chemicals to process wood into paper. Someone had come up with a new chemical to break down the glues in hemp for significantly cheaper and Dow used their muscle to put it on the criminal list along with heroin and cocaine.

*footnote: found this page with a statement saying that hemp paper may actually be more expensive: http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/quest ... s-of-trees. Again, not well sited... You know what they say about the Internet and statistics.

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Without a quick trip to google I forgot his name, but yeah, guy owned most of the stock available in timber, and I think he did have something to do with Dow, but marijuana was popular with Mexican day laborers, so as soon as one of them got in trouble (killed a guy at a bar, but hey, in Texas I think that's a misdemeanor) the opportunity was seized to claim that the strange green stuff Mexicans smoke can make you loose your mind and kill people. The popularity of mj prohibition continued when southern cops figured out they could use the same new laws to prosecute jazz musicians (hint, white people didn't play jazz back then).

I'm wondering how many countries will follow suit after the majority of the country regulates. I know Canada will probably pass a nationwide law at some point after us, and I had kind of assumed England would beat us to it, but I could see that happening too.

[Jalpha]

I don't see it happening in Australia any time soon. With our public healthcare system being flooded by people needing liver and lung transplants already, and our generous social welfare system, we couldn't afford it.

Take a look at the hardline stance Australia has taken against tobacco, and the exorbitant taxes included in the price of alcohol and cigarettes. I know some smokers who have taken to using vaporisers because the liquid nicotine isn't taxed as heavily and thus is cheaper by a huge margin. Then there's the plain packaging laws...

I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol followed a similar path in time to come.

Australia is a nanny-state. I still prefer that to the ghettos and hoards of homeless I saw throughout the US however.

[Tamasin]

I don't see it happening in Australia any time soon. With our public healthcare system being flooded by people needing liver and lung transplants already, and our generous social welfare system, we couldn't afford it.

Take a look at the hardline stance Australia has taken against tobacco, and the exorbitant taxes included in the price of alcohol and cigarettes. I know some smokers who have taken to using vaporisers because the liquid nicotine isn't taxed as heavily and thus is cheaper by a huge margin. Then there's the plain packaging laws...

I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol followed a similar path in time to come.

Australia is a nanny-state. I still prefer that to the ghettos and hoards of homeless I saw throughout the US however.

So much this. ***** nanny-state. This kind of **** is a very serious problem in our country. Personally I think a large part of the reason our people are tolerating this treatment and doing pretty much nothing is the kind of attitude that 'well it's better than having xyz problem'. When a country starts to accept things that should be unacceptable, simply because we're too cheap and lazy to come up with real solutions, it heads down a dark path with a slippery slope.

[Jalpha]

I just don't ever want to have to walk along the foreshore of any of our beaches and see literally dozens of homeless and their piles of disgusting **** they live on. I think our welfare system is a good thing, and I like having public healthcare. I just think if you are suffering from a self inflicted illness you should be up for the cost yourself. I shouldn't be paying for someone's new lungs, which they are just going to ***** anyway in six months time.

The main concern I have with weed is its propensity to exacerbate mental health issues. If that were to happen here a lot more people would be on welfare. I think the US will provide an invaluable case study on the socio-economic impacts of legalisation, and whilst things operate differently there (ie. no welfare) the data could be evaluated with that in mind.

But then, weed has always been legal is SA right? As long as you grow and use personally and don't distribute. Who wants to live in SA though.

Australia is a nanny-state, and it is getting worse. Personally I just do whatever the ***** I like and try my best to not get caught. Eventually though... Somethings going to have to bend or it will snap.

[Tamasin]

I just don't ever want to have to walk along the foreshore of any of our beaches and see literally dozens of homeless and their piles of disgusting **** they live on. I think our welfare system is a good thing, and I like having public healthcare. I just think if you are suffering from a self inflicted illness you should be up for the cost yourself. I shouldn't be paying for someone's new lungs, which they are just going to ***** anyway in six months time.

The main concern I have with weed is its propensity to exacerbate mental health issues. If that were to happen here a lot more people would be on welfare. I think the US will provide an invaluable case study on the socio-economic impacts of legalisation, and whilst things operate differently there (ie. no welfare) the data could be evaluated with that in mind.

But then, weed has always been legal is SA right? As long as you grow and use personally and don't distribute. Who wants to live in SA though.

Australia is a nanny-state, and it is getting worse. Personally I just do whatever the ***** I like and try my best to not get caught. Eventually though... Somethings going to have to bend or it will snap.

I agree about the mental health issues associated with weed. No doubt some valuable stuff can be learnt from observing the US. I certainly want to see weed legalised here, but doing nothing about the potential problems with it is a bad idea. I think that legalisation, with an appropriate approach toward dealing with the problems weed can cause could reduce the incidence of weed related mental health problems though. Even as things are, we do a really bad job of public education. It's not that the information isn't presented to the public, it's that we do it in ways which aren't very effective.

[Jalpha]

Mental health in general concerns me. The more you know about it, the more you start recognising symptoms of this and that in literally everyone. More support should be available across the board, and for sure you could throw a tax on the sale of cannabis and use that tax to fund dependence and mental health support strategies but... That falls pretty clearly under the heading of nanny-state. I guess it's something which is so much a part of life here that we can't avoid it.

Your point on poor public education reminded me of John Howards drug leaflet which he sent to every household in Australia... You can tell the breed of human that makes it into politics...

Weed isn't legal in SA, I just checked. Several states have decriminalised in past decades and SA seems to have the most lenient repercussions. I think that's a step in the right direction. Even states where it's still a criminal offense will usually hand out warnings or put you on a diversion program a time or two before you are stamped with a criminal record.

Is that different to how the US handles things?

[Thor]

It's also affected my taste in music. I was huge fan of the oldschool rock and roll music scene and I do still listen occasionally but now for me it's really all about the rap/hip-hop ****.

proof that weed really can make you stupid

Haha amen!