Brazier mechanics

[Potjeh]

It doesn't really matter because the attacker will just build some empty braziers to water down your defenses.

[Procne]

Ah, that's another thing to consider - do braziers built outside the claim count towards this N as well?

[Claeyt]

I'm really not understanding the grouping of braziers. What if you have 25 braziers all lined up in row and the attacker attacked the exact middle brazier. Would the two outer braziers outside the 23 hex range of the middle count as their own groups? Is it based off attack groups based on the commitment of crime? Are all 25 considered one group?

Do torch posts stack with braziers for damage and take away damage potential or do they count as their own attack group?

All of these questions are basically only answerable by the devs. They owe us for nerfing our mines. Please answer some questions on this stuff so we have a basic understanding how to build defenses against large groups before they wipe this server like last time.

[Claeyt]

Ah, that's another thing to consider - do braziers built outside the claim count towards this N as well?

... and ***** answer this before this bug abuse is used.

[Champie]

This sucks.

It seems to me that, with the new brazier mechanics, defenses can be optimized to provide 4x the maximum damage output of the old system with no more than 4 braziers covering a 25x25 tile area. Repeat the pattern for larger areas and you are good to go. Of course, now that raiders have the ability to regen humors while having Crime! debuff, hitting for maximum damage as frequently as possible will be essential, but achievable without insane amounts of defensive structures. An active defender seems likely to see quicker and more decisive results, win or lose.

I still haven't heard anyone mention the Log-Out with Crime debuff feature. I got an alt all crimed up and tried to log out but I got a notification that I could not log out right now (on unclaimed land and on Boston claim). I KO'd on the claim and was eventually returned to Boston (no Homestead) and I was able to log out after that. Can anyone clarify how it is supposed to work works? Thanks

[kelthulz]

if "groups" mean two braziers have range overlap just 1 pixel so how the hell i can have bazier fire with 100% damage? build a small base 10x10?

@Edit:

[03:59] <@loftar> If a brazier has no other braziers inside its own range, then it will fire at 100%, Anfros.

Ow! Seem like one brazier must in another brazier's range to be called "groups" so it ok for me

[MagicManICT]

Ever think that "range" looks at all the braziers that could hit the target?

edit: ok, I need to quit reading so damn fast. (see procne's post below) Note, I'm not the only one....

[Potjeh]

Nope, this bit clearly shows that's not how it works:

[03:58] <Anfros> but if we have 2 braziers firing at one person from max range standing as far as possble from each other do we get 100% or 200% damage?
[03:59] <@loftar> If a brazier has no other braziers inside its own range, then it will fire at 100%, Anfros.
[03:59] <Anfros> oh so by good placement we can still have more damage that from one brazier then
[03:59] <@loftar> Yes.

[Champie]

Ever think that "range" looks at all the braziers that could hit the target?

I think Anfros' recent interrogation of loftar provides some evidence of how it works:

[03:59] <@loftar> If a brazier has no other braziers inside its own range, then it will fire at 100%

edit: too slow

[Claeyt]

I'm putting this here to better help new players. Feel free to clip any other spots where I posted this please mods, or leave it. It seems it's pretty helpful from all the PM's I'm getting.

This guide is so people better understand the 1/N base damage for defensive structure groups.

Okay, I've had a nice long chat with Jorb. here's how this works.

1. Spammed off claim braziers and torchposts are known to them and are hopefully fixed by the time you read this.
2. Empty and damaged braziers are now included in the damage group but they are thinking of changing that.
3. Brazier range is 23 hexes approx. and torchpost range are the damage reduction range for them.
4. Base damage is 40k bb for a group of brazier/s, less for torchposts. A single brazier will do 40 bb, 10 braziers all within range of the attacker will do 40/10 damage each so 4 per brazier. The base brazier attack of 40k bb is not a fixed number. Jorb has confirmed that it is 40k but it is a randomized number based on several factors. It's possible that 40k bb is the average attack amount while using only braziers.
5. Torchposts and Braziers are part of the same group damage calculation so nearby torchposts will actually lower the max base damage of the group.
6. Damage is determined individually per brazier/torchpost at the time of firing. The damage each brazier/torchpost creates is determined individually and reduced by each brazier/torchpost within range to the firing brazier/torchpost.

7. Example one:

In this example the square is the attacker and the circles are braziers. The first brazier fires for 40/2 = 20bb against the attacker as it individually calculates only the second brazier within it's range. The second brazier fires for 40/3 = 13.333 bb as it's within it's own range of 23 of the first and third brazier. The third brazier is not in range of the attacker and does not help the group base attack, it only hurts it. The attacker takes 33.3333 damage instead of the 40 if only the first brazier existed.



8. Example two:

In this example a line of 35 braziers is attacked by the attacker represented by the squares. If the attacker was the red square and he attacked the brazier in front of them the right most 30 braziers would be in range and fire. The right most brazier would fire for 40/23 = 1.739, the second right most brazier would fire for 40/24 = 1.666, the third brazier from the right would fire for 40/25 = 1.6 and so on along the line. Each individual brazier to the left would have more braziers figured into it's damage base up to the middle one which would fire for 40/30 = 1.333.

If instead the attacker attacked at the yellow square then the 23 braziers on the left side of the line would be in range and attack him. The first brazier, the one in front of him would calculate at 40/23 = 1.739 bb, the second brazier to the right would calculate at 40/24 = = 1.666 and so on. The point of this being that the attacker should attack in range of the least amount of braziers or in range of the least amount of braziers who themselves are within range of the most amount of braziers.

If instead the red square was the initiating first attacker while the yellow square was secondary attacker after the red attacker had already come under fire then the red attacker would come under fire from the rightmost 30 braziers and the yellow attacker would come under the fire of the left most 5 braziers.



9. Example 3:

In this example the red square is the attacker and he is attacking between two braizer groups that are both in range. Each brazier is far enough away (23 hexes) from each other that they both constitute an individual group. The left brazier would fire at 40/1 = 40 bb and the right one would also fire at 40/1 = 40 bb. The attacker would take 80 pts of bb damage if he attacked at that exact middle spot.



I hope this helped a little. I'll take any questions in PM if you have them.

Base design is mighty changed from last world. I'm seeing that you'll have to balance coverage versus detrimental braziers to the point of attack.

Edit: Jorb has mostly confirmed these calculations. He did correct me in saying that the 40k was not a fixed number but rather is randomized. We don't know if that means 40k is the average or that if it means that it depends on other factors. Here's the quote:

Apologies. The base damage is 40k, but I realize that this number doesn't mean much to you as damage is then randomized and combobulated in more ways than one to arrive at the final number.

Edit: Jorb used the number 11.5 for some reason for base damage determination I thought. The radius of the brazier (23 hexes) is the determining factor apparently.