Ukraine vs Russia

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby darnokpl » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:09 pm

Claeyt wrote:What are you two talking about? Ozone has nothing to do with Greenhouse gases from Coal and Oil. The Polar Ozone Holes (Really just thinning) is caused by CFC's and related chemicals (mostly refigerants). International agreements have begun to help the situation.


You are right that is why I pointed that ozone over Poland is not a problem, even if our main power and heat source is coal?
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Claeyt » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:15 pm

Potjeh wrote:Crimea should gain indepence, but as Tatarstan ¦]

Actually it's pretty interesting....

When the Soviet Union broke up technically the Crimea should have reverted to the Turks according to the 'Treaty of Jassy'.

The Russians initially took the Crimean Khanate by breaking a treaty and illegally intervening in a civil conflict between the Khanate and it's Russian speaking population to "protect" them.

From Wikipedia:

"The rule of the last Crimean khan Şahin Giray was marked with increasing Russian influence and outbursts of violence from the khan administration towards internal opposition. On 8 April 1783, in violation of the treaty (some parts of which had been already violated by Crimeans and Ottomans), Catherine II intervened in the civil war, de facto annexing the whole peninsula as the Taurida Governorate. In 1787, Şahin Giray took refuge in the Ottoman empire and was eventually executed, on Rhodes, by the Ottoman authorities for betrayal. The royal Giray family survives to this day."

...sound familiar.
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Claeyt » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:23 pm

enemyunknown wrote:
Claeyt wrote:The Secret Papers of Yanukovich are showing how he stole billions and moved the money to Switzerland.

So it's not so >secret< papers, huh? Anyway - don't be jealous.


The Papers and information were found in the Dneiper River after people saw special police unloading boxes of papers from a truck into the River. I'm not jealous. I am sickened and disgusted that a leader of a country would disgrace himself and his oath so much. This does not happen in the West.

enemyunknown wrote:
Claeyt wrote:Russian media is exaggerating about the number of people that support Russia. Russian Media is lying about the amount of refugees. Find outside sources of information.

Every media lies - it was made for doin' that. The only difference is what lie it brings.

All of this don't make new ukrainian "govermant" a bit legit.


Russian Media lies more. Watch and Read all media from everywhere. Then you will decide the truth for yourself.

The Ukrainian Government is recognized by the World now. Only Russia does not recognize it. Your media is lying to you.
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Claeyt » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:46 pm

naosnule wrote:
Claeyt wrote: Find outside sources of information.


Better: find competent sources which have nothing to win by lying. Question is: who remains? The Red Cross? XD

Read all sources and you will see the lies in all of them. Compare them and you will see the truth in what they do not say.

For Ukraine I am watching RT news, Al Jazeera, BBC and American news channels. I am reading Kiev Post, Guardian, Crimean Papers translated, Ukraine Pravda, Moscow Times and other Ukrainian and Russian papers translated and as always the NYT and WaPo. I have over 100 newpapers bookmarked and check them daily.

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're mis-informed.” - Mark Twain
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby a63ntorange1 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:56 am

If your not a day trader, go get a job bro... Thats a bit much.
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Dallane » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:06 am

a63ntorange1 wrote:If your not a day trader, go get a job bro... Thats a bit much.


No ****
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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Claeyt » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:50 pm

I actually wrote all of this during work. Like a lot of guys on the forum we can't play the game while at work but we can post on the forum. As Dallane knows I love a good political discussion. This is what I do for fun. :D
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Snowpig » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:03 pm

So, instead of generating GDP as a proper employee you just waste working time writing words in this (and probably other) forum? Well, then i am about to know what will happen in the medium term...
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Odekva » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:47 pm

I am a bit lazy about forum wars, I just do not believe that there is much sense in them. But we are talking about my country here, so I am a bit concerned here and appear once more. Just because I DO hope that my other foreign friends would open their eyes just a bit.

Today one of my American friends contacted me and asked - what is happening, so I tried to give him a compressed Info which I have as a man born in Ukraine, as a man living in Russia and as a man who has a lot of friends in both countries and in a lot of cities incl Kiev, Donetsk, Lviv, Odessa, etc. I'll leave it here also, hope it would help some of you with better understanding the situation.

1) Yes, Yanukovich was a bad leader, thief and all is true, but all other possible leaders are the same or even worse. So there is not much perspective.

2) People protested against him, but not they made this revolution 2 weeks ago, it was armed hired bandits/terrorists from national front, they were financed from abroad and in those days in Kiev were a lot of foreign hired armed people fighting and shooting in the unarmed police forces, when special police units were trying to capture them they retreated and peaceful armless protestants were sent by their leaders on special forces, so they were unable to arrest armed terrorists without casualties and they retreated. 

3) Majority from people I know (also some living in Kiev) were demanding Yanukovitch to send army to end this revolution quickly. But since all his money are in USA and Swiss and he was under huge pressure from abroad he decided to retreat and abandon country to armed hired bandits instead of using his legal power to end this madness.

4) Now they have other but same bandits(mafiosi) in power, complete mess, a lot of papers and information destroyed(also police archives on all crime things) and armed people from abroad and western part of Ukraine arrives in all major cities of eastern Ukraine to perform the same power capture.

5) All south-eastern districts of Ukraine are raising Russian flags on Municipalities and organizing referendum among people on the question if people wish to join Russia or become an independent state/country. And this is the Legit way, those bandits from west could also have done their Maidan revolution in this way but they new that they would never get votes so they just used guns.

So as a result, the 99% majority of whom I know are sure that interested groups/companies from Europe + USA organized bandits and terrorist to capture Ukraine and now we are trying to save at lest what we can from them. And this is actually true, not the propaganda from TV, this information comes from people who lives in here who see this with their own eyes.

Yes it is very sad and grim for all of us, our economy is sinking and our brother nation is in mess and all the world shouts that we are the bad guys when with other hand through money and weapons to the rival bandits and uses all possible way's of propaganda. 
And yes, there are Russian army in Crimea, but they were there and are there on legit basis, since we have the right to have there 25 000 soldiers on our military bases, so yes they are keeping all in peace there, thats all. Just to provide the peaceful and legit process of peoples referendum.

And I would be very grateful to Claeyt if he would say here the same what he told me in PM about where is he from and if he knows Russian language. If he would do this, it would explain to others why his thoughts seem so strange to people who really have some Info on what is happening in here.

P.S. When I was last time in USA during the flight from Cleveland to Texas I've read a very disappointing article in one magazine, here it is, size is a bit big, but I made it so that it would be possible to read it.
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I was sadly impressed that this propaganda is still running in USA and that it is so miserable... I hope not a single one of you would say(without trolling ofc  ) that such games could be a training tool for soldiers!
Here is this museum http://morskoy-boy.15kop.ru/en/

P.P.S. Since I do not like and belive in forum wars, I doubt that I would argue with any one about this topic, I just try to give you some Info from the first hands.
Good luck out there.
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Re: Ukraine vs Russia

Postby Champie » Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:53 pm

Odekva wrote:I just try to give you some Info from the first hands.
Good luck out there.


I wonder if you would agree with Webster Tarpley's analysis of the situation in Ukraine in this 30 minute interview?
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