Ukraine vs Russia

[Claeyt]

Putin's actions in Ukraine are like Iraq. He is illegally occupying a foreign country. The difference is that Bush wanted to remove a corrupt dictator that was robbing his country and Putin wants to put one back in.

Nope.
1st. Iraq do not have border with USA.
2nd. Putin is a legal president of Russian Federation, which was chosen by means of independent vote recognized by the authorities of other states.
3rd. Russia and Putin do not occupying any foreign country yet officialy.
4rd. Even if Russian army forces in Crimea, it is made with the permission of authorities of the Crimea goverment.
5th. Putin do not corrupt dictator, if you such speak, officially you don't recognize Russian Federation as country and people of that country.
6th. Goverment in Kiev is not legal at now. And such "goverment" in Kiev made anticonstitutional laws and orders. "Such people" in Kiev got forcely the rule in their hands. "Such people" in Kiev dictates dictatorial not on behalf of the people under pressure from "terrorist". All laws and orders from new "goverment" can't be laws from people of Ukrain, because nobody do not chooses that goverment as democratic goverment.
7th "Goverment" in Kiev more corrupted dictators as president of Russian Federation mr.Putin.

1. Borders do not matter when you're invading a country. It is still a separate country and it's still illegal.

2. Putin is legal. Bush was legal. I've never said Putin was not democratically elected. I'm saying that Putin has violently suppressed the opposition within Russia by jailing, beating and killing them and anybody who reported it in the country. People vote for Putin because they fear what else might happen.

3. Russia and Putin are occupying Ukraine officially no matter what your suppressed media and RT says.

4. There is no national Crimean government. Crimea is part of Ukraine since 1954. It is not Russia or a separate country. Russian nationalist supporters have dissolved the provincial government and declared themselves in charge illegally. They have not held an election or acted in a legal way. The Crimean Provincial government can not invite foreign troops into the Ukraine. The Ukrainian government has not done that. Yanukovich's government was legally removed with a parliamentary no-confidence vote.

5. Putin is an Oligarchic leader with Democratic tendencies. Russia is a Democracy but Putin's government suppresses and jails the opposition. Putin supports many corrupt dictators in Syria and Ukraine.

6. The Government in Ukraine is legal now. There was a no confidence vote. Yanukovich's own party voted against him. The Party of Regions voted against Yanukovich. The vote was 328-0. There are no terrorists. That is a Russian media lie. There are a small number of Ukrainian nationalist groups that participated in the 'Maiden' but they are vastly outnumbered by common people. Elections are being held this summer.

You just disproved yourself. If you believe that the Ukrainian government should not be legal than why is the Crimean Government legal? Find Newspapers and Reporters outside of Russia. The Russian media is lying to you.

7. Elections are needed. Russia will be sanctioned. War will happen. End the Occupation of Ukraine.

[materia]

End the Occupation of Ukraine.

everything else is brain washing. ukraine is a free independent country since 1991 ; NOW...... GTFO *****.

[Claeyt]

For you Russians that don't see outside media.

The World is protesting Russia. Russian Police arrest hundreds of anti-war protesters yesterday in Moscow and St. Petersburg.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/10669786/Russia-Could-these-protests-topple-Putin.html

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/russian-anti-war/1017688.html

In Canada:



In England:

[darnokpl]

Putin's illegal occupation

Is there any way to make occupation legal?

Most people in here forgot that after WW2 not only Ukraine was under occupation of ZSRR... after ZSRR fail they fall back their soldiers, but not agents. They were and still are infiltrating politicians groups in central and eastern Europe. My point Ukraine is like fly in spiders web right now and we (common people) are not able to say what is better for that country and entire region. Putin, Obama and maybe Merkel got few scenarions of what will happen next, but people should frak media and politicians, who are saying them what to do. Politicians are only faces that have to make crowds go in direction it is needed, they are not in charge while war is in air.

[Claeyt]

Putin's illegal occupation

Is there any way to make occupation legal?

Most people in here forgot that after WW2 not only Ukraine was under occupation of ZSRR... after ZSRR fail they fall back their soldiers, but not agents. They were and still are infiltrating politicians groups in central and eastern Europe. My point Ukraine is like fly in spiders web right now and we (common people) are not able to say what is better for that country and entire region. Putin, Obama and maybe Merkel got few scenarions of what will happen next, but people should frak media and politicians, who are saying them what to do. Politicians are only faces that have to make crowds go in direction it is needed, they are not in charge while war is in air.

I think they are. Putin invades Ukraine. Obama and Merkel kick Russia out of G8 and prepare to seize russian Swiss accounts. The Ruble is dropping like a rock. NATO has gone on high alert and 200,000 Ukrainian men just reported for the army today.

Aren't you glad Poland joined NATO Darnokpl?

As for Occupation. I'd say that the occupation of NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan after WWII was legal. Japan even signed a treaty of occupation.

[enemyunknown]

Now Russia just takes what it wants. Not so cool like USA with it's anti-terrorism invasions, but still cool. I like Russia. Best vodka in the world, anyway.

[Greb]

Yet alot 'Russian Supporter' Ukrainians are now moving to Russia and many are getting citizenship.
Both sides are doing ALOT of propaganda and both sides did mistakes that have lead to this.
Even Western politicians are corrupt, not just Ukrainians and Russians.

PS. Claeyt, Russia is not alone. What about China and India? Germany and France will most likely side with them this time too, yet war would not do them any good (Yes, i know Germany told it's not nice to do that to ukraine, but thats all)
Most of europe wont do anything to Russia because of gas and oil lines.. really dependant on it.

[darnokpl]

Obama and Merkel kick Russia out of G8 and prepare to seize russian Swiss accounts. The Ruble is dropping like a rock. NATO has gone on high alert and 200,000 Ukrainian men just reported for the army today.

WOW realy? Russia can send military forces and they are going to kick them out from G8
Do you think that in those accounts is something more than 0.01$?

Anyone read about Snowden being russian spy? Well for me USA and EU just confirmed this with their actions or rather with now actions
Imho USA and Germany just sold part of Ukraine to get back Snowden and info he took to Russia (he got asylum for 1 year only?, so Russia will take care of this war in 1 year)...
or Russia is using those informations to blackmail entire NATO and they will only make sad faces in TV.

Aren't you glad Poland joined NATO Darnokpl?

Do you think that German, France or British soldiers will die for Poland?

As for Occupation. I'd say that the occupation of NAZI Germany

Occupation is against common people like you or me, how this can be legal?
Does common people are responsible for actions of their leaders?

Also ask yourself who let nazi Germany to grow so strong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_ ... strictions in few years and why?
Hint: it wasn't common people.

[Claeyt]

Yet alot 'Russian Supporter' Ukrainians are now moving to Russia and many are getting citizenship.
Both sides are doing ALOT of propaganda and both sides did mistakes that have lead to this.
Even Western politicians are corrupt, not just Ukrainians and Russians.

PS. Claeyt, Russia is not alone. What about China and India? Germany and France will most likely side with them this time too, yet war would not do them any good (Yes, i know Germany told it's not nice to do that to ukraine, but thats all)
Most of europe wont do anything to Russia because of gas and oil lines.. really dependant on it.

No, Europe will shut down the gas for this. Count on it.

China has huge investments in Ukraine so they're supporting the UN monitors option. France and Germany are pushing as hard as the UK and US for Economic Sanctions against Russia. Merkel, the French and the Polish President are the ones who negotiated the deal last week between the protesters and the president that the Russians are now breaking. France supported Lithuania's and Latvia's resolution to invoke act 4 of NATO this week.

Russia is alone on the world stage right now. Let's see what Putin does in glare of the lights. Will he back down from direct sanctions?

The propaganda for this is amazing. No, there aren't hundreds of thousands of Russian speakers fleeing into Russia that is a lie that the Russian media is saying. RT news is amazing for how many lies it is promoting about Ukraine. Watching it for 5 minutes shows how modern media is manipulating the world today. They are a propaganda machine of Putin and one of the largest online news sites coming out of Russia.

[Claeyt]

WOW realy? Russia can send military forces and they are going to kick them out from G8

the G8 is the main way economic agreements are made between the largest economies. What they mean by telling Russia that they'll kick them out is that all economic deals between Russia, Europe, Japan and the U.S. will be void. It's the first pretext to full sanctions by the other G8 members. There's a reason Russia spent 10 years trying to get into it.

G8 agreements are the largest source of trade agreements for food and energy.

Anyone read about Snowden being russian spy?

Snowden wasn't a Russian spy. He went to Russia because Putin wanted to show the world what the NSA was. They might be not letting him leave.

Aren't you glad Poland joined NATO Darnokpl?

Do you think that German, France or British soldiers will die for Poland?

That's exactly what NATO means Darnokpl. It also means Polish men should be ready to die for places like Lithuania and Latvia.

Occupation is against common people like you or me, how this can be legal?
Does common people are responsible for actions of their leaders?

In some ways, Yes, the common people are responsible for the actions of their leaders. Unless they speak out like 'The Maiden' or the protesters against the Iraq war here or the protesters in Moscow yesterday against the Crimean War now, the common people are guilty of letting the leaders become like what Putin has become today. The common people supported Hitler and were to blame for his rise in many ways.