Ukraine vs Russia

[TheBatman]

russia will win this war easy. they have lots of murder experience from playing haven and hearth

[Odekva]

They called many of the Revolutionaries in the British Colonies bandits, traitors, and many other things, but look how things turned out.

But those who hold the power in Ukrain now are no revolutionaries, they are plain bandits, the only thing that Ukrain needed were a new elections, but not the capturing of power with guns as they did, there are videos on youtube whith armed bandits shooting at unarmed police forces, and one of their leaders Alex Myzichko was previosly sentensed for kidnapping, murder attempts and was working with chechen terrorists.
There is a lot of things that are not shown to the world and a lot of others specially compilated to make you belive to things that never happened. I was born in Ukraine and have many friends there also living in Kiev. 90% of people know that the power was captured by armed bandits and that is a truth. Simple as that.

[Nimmeth]

But those who hold the power in Ukrain now are no revolutionaries, they are plain bandits, the only thing that Ukrain needed were a new elections, but not the capturing of power with guns as they did, there are videos on youtube whith armed bandits shooting at unarmed police forces, and one of their leaders Alex Myzichko was previosly sentensed for kidnapping, murder attempts and was working with chechen terrorists.
There is a lot of things that are not shown to the world and a lot of others specially compilated to make you belive to things that never happened. I was born in Ukraine and have many friends there also living in Kiev. 90% of people know that the power was captured by armed bandits and that is a truth. Simple as that.

Sounds like you are the one that has been watching too much tv

[Odekva]

Sounds like you are the one that has been watching too much tv

Then you are wrong with your analitics, sorry. Both TVs in my flat are unplagged
I prefer talking to people and thinking instead

[Nixman]

Sounds like you are the one that has been watching too much tv

Then you are wrong with your analitics, sorry. Both TVs in my flat are unplagged
I prefer talking to people and thinking instead

From what I've seen of the political geography of Ukraine, people views tend to be based on which side of the country you're living in including what kind of information is considered acceptable.
The thing was a complete mess thats for sure and Russia breaking their word regarding Crimea will be a huge blow to their international reputation, there was already distrust about certain recent things happening in Russia, this is pushing it dangerously close to the red line.

It's not like the old days where Russia actually had some significant influence as a superpower and the world was disjointed, the internet and the international community is much larger and more connected than ever before. Russia might find itself very lonely if it continues down the path its paving.

[Claeyt]

Don't watch too much TV guys, Ukrain was captured by bandits for several weeks now and if people would like better to join Russia then to stay under plain bandit rule - its a good choice.
Why no European army helped to withstand the armed bandits 2 weeks ago? Politics is a **** thing, do not watch TV guys, its mostly ***** in there.
Btw, watch Wag the Dog film, it is really good on this matter.

Good luck to all Ukrain and Russian people, hope they would through down all the bandits, and for the European sake - better they stay out and let us clean our own mess ourselfs.

And btw, there could not be any VS in here, most of Ukrain and Russian people are the same People.

This obscenity of the Russian mind places all who once lived under their rule as 'their' problem. Those who disagree with them at home are 'bandits' and those who disagree with them away are 'Nazi's'. They can't face that the world they ruled hated their guts every day that they ruled it. Even now large chunks of their bloated rotting corpse of a country want to get away from them. They call them bandits or thieves when in reality their own leaders are the greatest thieves this world has ever known. They steal billions from their own people and ruin their own Russian motherland for profit. Their 'motherland' has been pimped out to enrich their own spoiled sons so many times it's decaying right in front of their eyes. Only the lights of Moscow and the cities make it seem alive.

Odekva is the child of the Rich. His parents and family are the wood ticks of the country. Sucking it dry.

He is spouting the 'party' line even though he knows it's wrong. Russia does not 'own' Ukraine. In fact it never 'owned' Ukraine. It simply ruled it and the people hated them then, and now. Ukraine has been it's own country for 23 years now and only bribes and poison have kept it close to Russia.

I would only ask one question of Odekva. If Crimea can join Russia, then why can't Dagestan or Chechnya or the Chinese Far East choose which country they wish to join. As long as the insanity of Russia today is defined by them trying to hold on to their dying empire the world will be at risk. Iran, Syria, Chechnya, Dagestan, Crimea. The Wars of this century will be defined by the collapse of the Russian Empire and it's ego.

NATO forces could easily destroy the Russian army. The weaponry of Russia is 20 years old and useless and they'll be lucky to actually defeat the Ukrainians while having to maintain an army in the caucus to hold the people down there as well. The only thing stopping NATO from wiping out the Russian army is the paranoid tyranny of Putin and the threat of Nuclear War.

Your country and your Oligarchs are alone now in their spangled, cheap, tawdry, taste-less countryside. The World no longer cares about them and their world is getting smaller and smaller. We'll all be lucky to avoid a war. You'll probably hold Crimea but you'll never take Kiev again. Russia and Putin will never be a legitimate, respected player in world politics again. It's lost that forever.

[Claeyt]

From what I've seen of the political geography of Ukraine, people views tend to be based on which side of the country you're living in including what kind of information is considered acceptable.

In reality it's actually not very evenly divided. only 3 provinces are majority Russian native speakers now. All of the most populated areas are native Ukrainian now and with the Ukrainian language initiatives it's even more pronounced with the younger generation. In reality the votes that weren't rigged for Yanokovich were more based on economic security and poverty with the poorer, less European East voting for him. All parts of the 'Russian' majority provinces were also shrinking. Tartars (Ethnic Turkish Muslems) were returning to the Crimea from the Caucus after being forcibly relocated by Stalin. They now make up 12% of the Crimea and they don't want to flee Russia a second time. Even in the Crimea native Russian speakers only make up about 60% of the population.

Check out these maps:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/27/world/europe/ukraine-divisions-crimea.html?_r=0

It's not like the old days where Russia actually had some significant influence as a superpower and the world was disjointed, the internet and the international community is much larger and more connected than ever before. Russia might find itself very lonely if it continues down the path its paving.

Syria lost them the Sunni Muslim world and the occupation of Ukraine will lose them any diplomatic non-military influence over Europe for 100 years. Even Serbia, their last ally, has turned away from them.

[naosnule]

Russia and Putin will never be a legitimate, respected player in world politics again. It's lost that forever.

Respected by whom? Legitimized by whom? USA with the Snowden issue and Guantanamo fiasco? France with Hollande? Italy with their love for Berlusconi? UK with their massive surveillance system?

Like Jesus once said: "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone".

[Claeyt]

Russia and Putin will never be a legitimate, respected player in world politics again. It's lost that forever.

Respected by whom? Legitimized by whom? USA with the Snowden issue and Guantanamo fiasco? France with Hollande? Italy with their love for Berlusconi? UK with their massive surveillance system?

Like Jesus once said: "let him who is without sin, cast the first stone".

There's a big difference between Snowden showing us what's wrong with the NSA and you occupying parts of Ukraine. Even now Snowden's actions are defining next years elections. Our people get to vote after seeing this and yes he's a hero in my book and Obama was wrong to grow the NSA slightly. Your people are occupying another country and breaking 3 signed treaties with them (2 by Yeltsin and 1 by Putin) regarding their country.

Guantanamo and the U.S. torture program are two of the main reasons Obama is president now. The torture is done and Guantanamo is closing this year, hopefully, with the prisoners moving to the states. I disagreed with them being held overseas for legal reasons but I don't disagree with most of them being held as enemy combatants. The Supreme court has now settled their status and they all have the right to state-side legal protections and determination of civil vs military trials through the judiciary.

Who gives a **** about Hollande or Berlusconi.

The Russians still don't understand. By invading the separate and distinct country of Ukraine you have forever lost any real influence over Rumania, Bulgaria, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia or any of Eastern Europe. You'll hold Crimea but every single treaty or trade deal you attempt to negotiate will be wiped with the **** stain of Putin's occupation now. Ukraine is not part of Russia.... for 23 years now. Only the Russians don't get that.

Kiev is lost to you forever, just like Constantinople.

[naosnule]

There's a big difference between Snowden showing us what's wrong with the NSA and you occupying parts of Ukraine. Even now Snowden's actions are defining next years elections. Our people get to vote after seeing this and yes he's a hero in my book and Obama was wrong to grow the NSA slightly. Your people are occupying another country and breaking 3 signed treaties with them (2 by Yeltsin and 1 by Putin) regarding their country.

Guantanamo and the U.S. torture program are two of the main reasons Obama is president now. The torture is done and Guantanamo is closing this year, hopefully, with the prisoners moving to the states. I disagreed with them being held overseas for legal reasons but I don't disagree with most of them being held as enemy combatants. The Supreme court has now settled their status and they all have the right to state-side legal protections and determination of civil vs military trials through the judiciary.

One does not need to live or be Russian to support Putin.

As for Obama "was wrong": given that people throughout history have been willing to give up their lives for certain rights, "was wrong" is an understatement. He and previous presidents should have done better. And yes: taking a life is not the worst thing one can do.

Breaking a treaty, means just that: breaking a treaty. It is not something sacred, lol. Breaking a treaty, any treaty is always an option for any country. It is per se, neither bad or good to break a treaty; that requires a far deeper consequence analysis.

Guantanamo is just one of many institutions USA has to hold foreign people . USA is furthermore represented by elected officials; the President does not represent USA alone. Just the fact that it took so long time to close Guantanamo speaks volumes of the inhabitants of the country.