Bile Cap

[darnokpl]

if you try to "balance" 10 hours of play to 2-3 then there is no real reason to play more than 2-3 hours. Which would make this game even more "casual" as it is already.

Or: would you take a full-time job in RL if you knew that your neighbour would get the same money while working like 2 hours a day?

Wait, but in my first post here I said that person who is playing more can have many alts with max cap biles and person who is playing 2-3 hours per day probably would have 1 character at max cap, right?

[jwhitehorn]

Wait, but in my first post here I said that person who is playing more can have many alts with max cap biles and person who is playing 2-3 hours per day probably would have 1 character at max cap, right?

Nobody wants to be throttled. If you lack the dedication to be good at things then you should not ask the game to provide a handicap on those superior to yourself.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[darnokpl]

Wait, but in my first post here I said that person who is playing more can have many alts with max cap biles and person who is playing 2-3 hours per day probably would have 1 character at max cap, right?

Nobody wants to be throttled. If you lack the dedication to be good at things then you should not ask the game to provide a handicap on those superior to yourself.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

Dedication doesn't mean playing 10 hours per day. As for dedication I am here little longer than you and still didn't changed my attitude,
behind salem is great idea, but needs lots of work and got huge balancing issues.

[Procne]

I don't think the game is balanced around how long people play per day. There are some mechanics which may require this and this time, or this and this biles, but, as darnok pointed out, once you reach required caps / thresholds you go into quantity.

And so people, who compete with others, will make more alts, will build more walls, will grind more silver, will spend more time sieging.
I understand the general notion is to stop people from becoming too powerful, like HnH's brickbashers, but I think that current mechanics (waste claims, braziers and crime) are doing this job well enough.

[Potjeh]

if you try to "balance" 10 hours of play to 2-3 then there is no real reason to play more than 2-3 hours.

The reason to play more than 2-3 hours should be because it's fun. If the only good reason to play whatever amount of time you play is getting an edge over other players, that's a game design failure.

[Procne]

if you try to "balance" 10 hours of play to 2-3 then there is no real reason to play more than 2-3 hours.

The reason to play more than 2-3 hours should be because it's fun. If the only good reason to play whatever amount of time you play is getting an edge over other players, that's a game design failure.

But isn't it the main drive in MMOs? To work your ass off to be better than other players? Some competitive players take most fun from this.
Because if you want to remove this "feature" then you may as well make a single player version of Salem, or with minecraft-style private servers. Which I would be very happy about, but I don't think that's what devs want.

[Snowpig]

if you try to "balance" 10 hours of play to 2-3 then there is no real reason to play more than 2-3 hours.

The reason to play more than 2-3 hours should be because it's fun. If the only good reason to play whatever amount of time you play is getting an edge over other players, that's a game design failure.

Then - by your definition - every game which is not labeled as "casual" has this "game design failure".

Which reminds me of that joke about a guy driving a car on a highway: In the radio a message is broadcasted: "Warning! On Highway 123 a wrong way driver was spotted..." - That guy becomes furious: "One?!? - There are literally thousands of them !!"

[Potjeh]

If you want work, there's this thing they call a job. You even get paid for playing!

But seriously, how is it not obvious that designing a game to cater only to people who play 10+ hours a day is financially unsustainable? People that have that kind of time to waste aren't exactly known for having much money.

[Procne]

But seriously, how is it not obvious that designing a game to cater only to people who play 10+ hours a day is financially unsustainable? People that have that kind of time to waste aren't exactly known for having much money.

Well, yeah, but we were already given plenty of proofs showing devs don't care that much about commercial success.
And what do you mean that the game caters to people, who play 10+ hours a day?
You can still play relaitvely safely (provided you protect your place with some brain) and progress with 2h / day playtimes. Sure, you won't be the king of the server, but you wouldn't expect that, would you?

[Potjeh]

The game is a competition in who can burn more time on tedious ****. 10+ hours is what your run of the mill hardcore player will pull off. But then, a bot can pull 24h. And multiple bots can pull more, so the arms race will inevitably wind up in people running dozens of bots 24/7. It happened in Haven, and the only reason it hasn't happened in Salem yet is because of the low population which prevents formation of the critical mass of scripting savvy players.

And no, you can't play the game to the full extent at 2h/day. You'll never be able to engage in PvP playing like that, because you'll always be heavily outstatted. And PvP is a huge part of the game, not being able to do it is worse than not being able to farm or mine.

As for devs not caring about finances, that was the entire point of making Salem. If they didn't worry about money Haven would be a lot better game than it is right now.