An American Queen of Sweden?

[RuneNL]

Show me a monarch or other person with a hereditary title that doesn't do some work for their title or the country that entitled them.

The difference is that they are paid millions and millions to do that work in some cases. In other countries they're not taxed for their properties or income or whatever. Hereditary titles to political power are idiotic in this day and age.

The king of the Netherlands receives € 265.000,- a year. There are banks that are supported by the government with their CEO making € 1.350.000,- a year.

Dutch total overal income rose last year while the average income dropped by 10%. Meaning the rich are making massive profits while average people have less then the year before while our government aids in said rich profits...

Now that amazes me.

Royalty has to do an endless list of obligations, they too work for their money and aren't getting it for free.


So; shut up Claeyt.

[Claeyt]

Now that amazes me.

Royalty has to do an endless list of obligations, they too work for their money and aren't getting it for free..

That wealth is equal to power never amazes me. You should vote for whichever political party fights against those overpaid bank managers.

So the king of the Netherlands is paid 265,00 Euro to just be the king (and I'm guessing his kids and family are also paid a salary). Since when is 265,000 Euro not a lot, especially as an hereditary nepotistic job. I'm guessing he also gets to live in a castle for free and not have an income tax. Even so that's actually less then some royalty in Europe.

The idea that royalty has any actual obligations makes no sense. Besides some formal duties they generally can just sit in their mansions and hide from the paparazzi. They're not forced to go to whatever black tie charity event we see them at. Their supposed representation of the country is completely voluntary. They're basically just an entertainment provided to the people through their weddings, coronations, and birthday celebrations which are also paid for by the state. They serve no purpose except to perpetuate the false idea that Royalty equals Nobility. They are the fattest leeches on the dole. They are a vestigial tail.

I'll say it again: Royalty in this day and age is idiotic.

Haven't we evolved past this lie of out-dated faux spangled excess and false tradition of hereditary nobility as a civilization? Europe (and I suppose Japan and Thailand) have been lied to for so long with this idea of Feudal rule that it doesn't actually seem to understand how silly it seems to the rest of us.

[Kandarim]

Do you want to have a discussion on ridiculous incomes?

Soccer players.

[Spazzmaticus]

Haven't we evolved past this lie of out-dated faux spangled excess and false tradition of hereditary nobility as a civilization? Europe (and I suppose Japan and Thailand) have been lied to for so long with this idea of Feudal rule that it doesn't actually seem to understand how silly it seems to the rest of us.

Apart from being a living link to our rich and diverse history the royal family represents the cultural heart of traditional swedish values. What it really comes down to is that we live by secular ideals. With the separation of church and state you take away the power of religion from the ruling class. With the separation of traditional values and state (In this case, separating the culturally significant royal house from meaningful political influence) you take away their appeal to tradition.

While you are welcome to go to church it is not the tool of power it once was. You are also welcome to idolize the royal family but opting out of that carries no negative consequences on the political process. What we are left with is a government that need only concern itself with the practical needs of its people. The opium of prayers and princes is readily available for those individuals that seek it but the Riksdag stands unshackled next to all citizens, regardless of religious or nationalistic creed.

In the USA the president IS the king. George Washington, for instance, is a largely mythological figure that embodies traditional american values and beliefs. I really do feel that those values carry over to the present day as well ("How DARE you question our commander-in-chief!"). You may have separated the power of the church from government but the man at the top still fills a dual role; on one hand a public servant and on the other a link to the past. I can't remember the last time someone was called a traitor or "unswedish" for questioning Fredrik Reinfeldt or any other political authority. The idea of not being able to question actions and integrity of a Prime Minister is absurd.

Not that I am necessarily a royalist or even a man of tradition. As a secular humanist I just feel that the royal house still has an important part to play in our society. That's just my perspective, of course.

[Potjeh]

Obama is hardly unquestioned.

[Dallane]

Obama is hardly unquestioned.

Its really funny people actually think obama does what he wants.

[Claeyt]

Apart from being a living link to our rich and diverse history the royal family represents the cultural heart of traditional swedish values.

The opium of prayers and princes is readily available for those individuals that seek it but the Riksdag stands unshackled next to all citizens, regardless of religious or nationalistic creed.

In the USA the president IS the king. George Washington, for instance, is a largely mythological figure.

The royals are in no way representative of traditional Swedish values. They are representatives of the traditional Swedish power structure that has proven so wrong. You can't opt out of worshiping the royals if they're paid by the government that your taxes fund. That money could go for a lot better things than feeding and housing some inbred family.

In the US the president is so far from a king it's amazing. He's attacked on a daily basis from both sides no matter who he is. He's the most powerful person in the world but has very little actual power to create laws, judge laws or fund anything. He's a figure head but if he appears elitist or in any way royal like he's attacked for it. He has to appear as an every-man or blue collar american.

George Washington is mythologized but most of the slave owning first presidents have feet of clay and are humanized endlessly now. Jefferson's slave kids are an example. George Washington's mostly mythologized for three things. Beating the british as a general, supporting the re-write of the articles of confederation into the constitution and giving up the presidency after two terms when he could have kept it for life. He was a good leader but every school kid knows he wasn't a king.

[Syndarn]

Apart from being a living link to our rich and diverse history the royal family represents the cultural heart of traditional swedish values.

Agreed.

The royals are in no way representative of traditional Swedish values. They are representatives of the traditional Swedish power structure that has proven so wrong. You can't opt out of worshiping the royals if they're paid by the government that your taxes fund. That money could go for a lot better things than feeding and housing some inbred family.

How are they not what Spazzmaticus said? I don't claim to know everything. As far as i know most of the money paid to the Swedish royal house goes into managing the numerous buildings/museums of a vast cultural heritage for the swedish people and the rest for the use to the royal family.

Even if the concept of royalism doesn't quite fit the picture of today, it is still in the hearts of most of the swedish people and will remain there for a long time to come. Call it a necessary "bad thing" if you must. Even if it's not very fair and ideal. But still as a keeper and remainder of what Spazzmaticus said about the royal family. i can't think of anyone better suited for this job. It's a enrichment for Sweden to still have royals. It's dying out everywhere. Although the royals in Sweden don't have any real power left.

Even if the tax payers money could be spent better.. as far as i know it still goes pretty well for sweden economically compared to other countries.

Roughly 80% of the Finnish culture comes from Sweden or is adapted from it. In Finland it's totally forgotten that before Finland even existed as a idea. Most of the lands that are now Finland, belonged to Sweden for over 600 years. Finland in sense is Swedish. There are alot of traditions and stuff to uphold. For example a new Finnish president recieves a coat of arms and a membership in the Royal Seraphim order in Sweden under his or her first formal state visit.

Political rule sucks. So does Democracy, but it's still the best thing we have.

-Kruger

[Claeyt]

It's dying out everywhere.

Even if the tax payers money could be spent better.. as far as i know it still goes pretty well for sweden economically compared to other countries.

Roughly 80% of the Finnish culture comes from Sweden or is adapted from it. In Finland it's totally forgotten that before Finland even existed as a idea. Most of the lands that are now Finland, belonged to Sweden for over 600 years. Finland in sense is Swedish. There are alot of traditions and stuff to uphold. For example a new Finnish president recieves a coat of arms and a membership in the Royal Seraphim order in Sweden under his or her first formal state visit.

Political rule sucks. So does Democracy, but it's still the best thing we have.

It's dying everywhere for a reason.

Well, if it's okay with you then I guess we'll keep accepting those Swedish kronors for your princess's multi-million dollar New York condo mortgage coming directly from you, the Swedish Taxpayer.

I doubt the Finns will ever rejoin that Swedish culture or empire willingly. You might want to talk to the Finns we have playing here before you talking about how their culture is basically Swedish. What do you think about this Thor and Kardinal?

Democracy doesn't suck.

[Syndarn]

I doubt the Finns will ever rejoin that Swedish culture or empire willingly. You might want to talk to the Finns we have playing here before you talking about how their culture is basically Swedish. What do you think about this Thor and Kardinal?

For the record i am Finnish. Don't get me wrong here. Finland is Finland and will remain so. Sweden has no influence in how my country is run. We do copy them much because they are most of the time a few steps ahead of us. What i meant up there is a tradition or formality. Basically keeping up relations of our countries.

Most of the Finnish people are either Swedish or Russian in origin. So when Finland was founded most things were copied from Sweden because Finland had nothing of it's own to build on. The Swedish ways were adopted because the population already knew them from before, and they were considered much better than anything Russia had to offer at that time.

What the princess uses her money for, i don't care. It's her right to do whatever she wishes with it. It might be taxpayers money or then it's not. Probably is, but it doesn't have to be. It's her private life. It doesn't concern me.

Democracy doesn't suck.

It does abit in my opinion. Because people don't generally know what is good for them, all kinds of lunatics and retards get a say in everything, so we might end up with worse. But it's still fairer and better than some dictatorship that is more easily abused.

What i am saying is. Democracy has alot of flaws, but far less than Political rule.