Salem

The difference from what I see of this game and any other game is in other game people are removed when they cheat.
Beta or Not

Really the game is already offering silver for real currency and people are openly admitting to using exploits.

They are not here to bug test they are here to ruin the game. What really makes you think they will change when game goes "commercial"?

The problem isn't just these people who openly cheat but the "o well" stance of devs

Everything from people from figuring out ways to Ddos people through massive 1x1 farms to people abusing any number of exploits for their advantage.

It doesn't help devs/paradox case that a few of the forum moderators belong to such groups that openly admit to abusing bugs.
Really is that who you trust giving money to?

Decay wrote:The difference from what I see of this game and any other game is in other game people are removed when they cheat.
Beta or Not

Really the game is already offering silver for real currency and people are openly admitting to using exploits.

They are not here to bug test they are here to ruin the game. What really makes you think they will change when game goes "commercial"?

The problem isn't just these people who openly cheat but the "o well" stance of devs

Everything from people from figuring out ways to Ddos people through massive 1x1 farms to people abusing any number of exploits for their advantage.

It doesn't help devs/paradox case that a few of the forum moderators belong to such groups that openly admit to abusing bugs.
Really is that who you trust giving money to?

Your concerns are noted. The best you can do is to contribute to the group of players who are here to punish any cheaters, botters, hackers, or exploiters that we find. The Tribe will be here to regulate hackers and punish abusers. That is the beauty of the Sandbox. Sure a group of players were able to bot, abuse, and exploit their way to the largest city in the game. But now the players (not the dev's, mods, or publisher) burned their city to the ground for their abuses. Your points are very valid but it is important to keep in mind that as long as the Tribe is in power all those using exploits will be homeless and irrelevant in the grand scope of things.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

How do you expect the beta to work if people get banned for using bugs? I mean, many bugs are found because people actively look for them, for their advantage. This advantage is the best incentive for searching for bugs. If devs started banning for that then people would no longer report bugs. At least some of them.

Procne wrote:How do you expect the beta to work if people get banned for using bugs? I mean, many bugs are found because people actively look for them, for their advantage. This advantage is the best incentive for searching for bugs. If devs started banning for that then people would no longer report bugs. At least some of them.

It would work like any game in live development (Released)

The player reports the bug,
The development fix.
Player abuses, the player is punished.

Do you think people do not report bugs in other games?

The incentive currently is to NOT report exploits.

Decay wrote:

Procne wrote:How do you expect the beta to work if people get banned for using bugs? I mean, many bugs are found because people actively look for them, for their advantage. This advantage is the best incentive for searching for bugs. If devs started banning for that then people would no longer report bugs. At least some of them.

It would work like any game in live development (Released)

The player reports the bug,
The development fix.
Player abuses, the player is punished.

Do you think people do not report bugs in other games?

The incentive currently is to NOT report exploits.

You compared this game to other games (more or less similar), how is it dealt with in those games compared to this one. I believe that's where you've made the mistake.
No matter how other games may be similar to this one concerning genre or gameplay or setting, it's the philosophy behind the concept of this game that makes it so much different. When it comes to this specific thing - bug using/exploiting. Devs are working on fixes for reported bugs. Those will come... eventually. Its their prioritizing that people mostly disagree with. And that they will not punish anyone who uses them for their own benefit.
And therefore, in this game exploiting is NOT cheating. It's part of the game mechanics.
Why? Jorb said it yesterday, but I'm too lazy to quote. - To encourage competitiveness. What risks are you willing to take to make your character stronger, better, richer? None? Wanna play it safe? Then play causal and none of it is your concern.
I've seen old posts on this forum where people posted accusations that all those using Ender's client were cheaters. Now that vanilla has also implemented a radar, those were silenced.
That fine line of what is cheating and what is not is quite blurred and vague in this game. You can argue on the forums all you want, or you can accept it as a part of this game.

ameba wrote: And that they will not punish anyone who uses them for their own benefit.
And therefore, in this game exploiting is NOT cheating. It's part of the game mechanics.

So in other words the dev concluded it is perfectly fine to Ddos the salem game servers?
Well as long as they give the legal go ahead.

You said it yourself what one person might conclude as cheating a another might not....

Hmmm now to get admin account in game... hmmm account names are linked to game accounts and only game admins are admins like "Jorb" hmmm

Getting admin account and then banning people isn't cheating it is "bug reporting"

Decay wrote:

ameba wrote: And that they will not punish anyone who uses them for their own benefit.
And therefore, in this game exploiting is NOT cheating. It's part of the game mechanics.

So in other words the dev concluded it is perfectly fine to Ddos the salem game servers?
Well as long as they give the legal go ahead.

You said it yourself what one person might conclude as cheating a another might not....

Hmmm now to get admin account in game...

xD Is that how you understood my post? You consider DDoSing servers to be bug-using?
Unless you mean to carry that out through bug-using? Like, e.g. spamming 1x1 fields just outside of capital on all servers (those stupid claims might ruin the plan, tho), to crash as many clients as you can. Well, I'd support that idea. That would actually send a strong message to devs about the consequences of that certain bug. Might even perhaps change their view on the importance of that one. But you wouldn't be punished for that. In fact, worst case scenario - they nuke fields. Best case scenario - they nuke fields... and put that fix as priority #3.
And what I've said still stands.

And what's that rambling about admin account?

ameba wrote:xD Is that how you understood my post? You consider DDoSing servers to be bug-using?

Ddos = Denial-of-service attack
Anything that denies a person access to a service is a Ddos
Crashing of clients to arp packets to massive /w's @ /ctcp's in irc , spoofed icmp , ath0++

And yes even spamming 1x1 farms to crash anyone in game.

Are you seriously comparing bug exploiting which is used to gain personal advantage in game, to a DDOS attack which is used only to disrupt gameplay for everyone?

edit: Besides, if some gamebreaking bugs are discovered then devs fix them quicckly if they can. It's a matter of priorities

Procne wrote:Are you seriously comparing bug exploiting which is used to gain personal advantage in game, to a DDOS attack which is used only to disrupt gameplay for everyone?

I suggest wiki or a dictionary.