What is a griefer? raider?

[MagicManICT]

Just picking up a discussion leaving off from another thread (because there's too much there to split off). If anyone wants to read up, you can see what has been posted starting about here and going through about page 7.

I just want to add my copper pennies to the discussion:

My view of it: coming into a game like Salem is like going to play poker at a card room. If you don't know the game, don't cry when you lose all your money by the end of the night. The same thing applies to Salem (and other open PvP games like it). If you don't know how to handle yourself and at least avoid the worst of it, even if you don't know the specific game, you voluntarily decided to go swimming with the sharks. No crying when you get bit!! Does it really matter if the other guy can be labelled as a "griefer", "raider" or he/she was just policing and protecting his home territory you just happened to wander into?

There's an acronym from EVE I fell in love with, "NBSI"--"Not Blue? Shoot It!". In other words, if you're not a known ally (colored blue in EVE), expect to get attacked by anyone you see, and you should be prepared to do the same to anyone you run across near your home. Doesn't mean you have to, just be prepared. The guy that gets attacked really won't know why unless you tell them. Even then, as far as they're concerned, you're just another big, bad griefer. I refuse to use the term "victim" because A) it's a game and B) you choose to be here and what you do in the game has consequences no matter how innocuous it seems. Just as a note: some groups had just the opposite position--don't fire unless it's a known enemy--known as "NRDS," "Not Red? Don't Shoot!"

In summary: a raider isn't always a griefer, though griefers might be raiders. If I were to draw a Venn diagram, there would be two interconnecting circles, not one inside another or both completely overlapping.

[Superiodity]

Pokers a bad example, having all the odds in your favour but losing on the river card never gets any easier, you might not say anything but you'll be crying on the inside if it's a lot of money they just lucked out of you.
I've also seen pocket aces beaten more times when going all in preflop than it has won, doesn't matter how much skill/experience you have at it you'll still get annoyed at certain outcomes that you were supposed to win.

[MagicManICT]

I think you missed my point.... If you don't know the game of poker, you're going to go bust pretty fast when playing against a bunch of sharks.

[Dallane]

I can see how easy a person could mix these two up

Raiders do cause grief to players but they are not a griefer. They will attack to loot for profit as part of a way to play the game.

griefer will roll through and blow **** up and loot for drama and giggles.

perfect example of a griefer
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1054&view=unread#p11938

[Absolut]

I am too tired to quote myself, so just waiting for a mod to move the previous discussion posts here.

[MagicManICT]

I am too tired to quote myself, so just waiting for a mod to move the previous discussion posts here.

This is why I linked the start of this particular discussion in the other thread so nobody has to repeat themselves if they don't want to. (You could link to that post if you don't feel like typing it, but don't feel obligated.)

[Superiodity]

I think you missed my point.... If you don't know the game of poker, you're going to go bust pretty fast when playing against a bunch of sharks.

I guess.. but I don't think many people come into this game extremely paranoid and fearing for their life/claim unless they've played HnH or read up everything there is to know about the game and are always on the forums. I think most just walk a bit out of Boston and start crafting/learning how to do things over time or occasionally reading the guide/wiki.

Where as poker, you'd never just buy into a game with a bunch of "sharks" unless you thought they were completely new at the game as well, or you've at least read up on all the rules and strategy guides there is.
(or you're a complete idiot and thinking throwing yourself in the deep end and wasting lots of money will make you "pro" faster)

Basically nobody learns to play poker by taking on sharks and can very easily avoid them by sticking to low end tables and not entering high stake tournaments but many people are completely unaware of the "sharks" in this game so it's a bad comparison.

[MagicManICT]

There are plenty of games like this, though: EVE, Darkfall, Age of Conan, Ultima Online, etc. No, none are permadeath, but they all have very open PvP rules.

I'll concede that last point about my comparison to poker.

[sabinati]

everyone that plays
is a griefer, and a griefee.
welcome to salem.

[L33LEE]

suggestion retracted due to death threats.

Unsure if this will stop them, but here is hoping.