Braziers and 3 walls?

[Gallient]

Although I have no problem with the current wall system, as having relocated several times I had everything well planned out and the silver to claim what I needed before laying down the first layer, I do find the doors to be quite tedious especially since it's going to require more and more layers as raiders get stronger and stronger. That means more doors to click open and shut, and since I stagger perimeters and offset entrances, bringing a loaded sled in is a challenge within itself. As far as granite goes, I do wish boulders would have a spawn mechanic. Frankly though, after my experience trying to put together a plank fence, the stone hedge is a walk in the park. I just use an alt to locate and pick at boulders in locations less scavenged. Regular stone boulders are in abundance and produce quite a lot of product, so a few of them to drop in the stamp mills takes care of that.

[ramuller]

If I remember correctly, Jorb said the 3 wall behaviour is a bug to be fixed at some point.

[Sevenless]

If I remember correctly, Jorb said the 3 wall behaviour is a bug to be fixed at some point.

It's not a bug, it's the result of a rather quickly slapped on fix to dealing with criminal behaviour before they'd fully thought out the system for it.

It is a mechanic they're hoping to improve on though. I'm still confused why the first summonable doesn't just trigger the braziers. It would mean a lot less silliness like this.

[Zamte]

If I remember correctly, Jorb said the 3 wall behaviour is a bug to be fixed at some point.

It's not a bug, it's the result of a rather quickly slapped on fix to dealing with criminal behaviour before they'd fully thought out the system for it.

It is a mechanic they're hoping to improve on though. I'm still confused why the first summonable doesn't just trigger the braziers. It would mean a lot less silliness like this.

Someone the other day in a thread was suggesting it was intended to make it harder to drain out the fuel on their braziers by trespassing or hitting the wall and then leaving them to drain with alts. I could see that being a positive to this, but it'd probably be better to just give them a 30 second grace period or something where no fuel is lost if the attacker doesn't stick around.

[ramuller]

If I remember correctly, Jorb said the 3 wall behaviour is a bug to be fixed at some point.

It's not a bug, it's the result of a rather quickly slapped on fix to dealing with criminal behaviour before they'd fully thought out the system for it.

It is a mechanic they're hoping to improve on though. I'm still confused why the first summonable doesn't just trigger the braziers. It would mean a lot less silliness like this.

As a software developer, I would say your description is a classic description of a design bug.

[Sevenless]

I guess it depends how you look at it. They programmed it to specifically take 3 vandalism acts to trigger, this is not an unintentional side effect of something else. It's definitely "working as intended", but yes it's a design flaw the game hit when opening up criminal acts in pre-commercial beta happened before the system was fully implemented (and thought out).

Edit: While I'm on the subject. The intention of this system is partially to avoid the "shell" defense problem Haven had. People had a wall? You couldn't do **** unless you sieged them for X hours so most raiders didn't bother. Then you got enough strength and walls didn't matter. Bam, shell broken, people start dying everywhere.

I guess the point is you don't want the system to be a "can break" or "can't break". In that it failed as well until the recent crime debuff changes.

[ramuller]

I guess it depends how you look at it. They programmed it to specifically take 3 vandalism acts to trigger, this is not an unintentional side effect of something else. It's definitely "working as intended", but yes it's a design flaw the game hit when opening up criminal acts in pre-commercial beta happened before the system was fully implemented (and thought out).

Edit: While I'm on the subject. The intention of this system is partially to avoid the "shell" defense problem Haven had. People had a wall? You couldn't do **** unless you sieged them for X hours so most raiders didn't bother. Then you got enough strength and walls didn't matter. Bam, shell broken, people start dying everywhere.

I guess the point is you don't want the system to be a "can break" or "can't break". In that it failed as well until the recent crime debuff changes.

Yes, but it seems quite silly that the game should be set up to require a minimum of three layers of fence/wall on even the simplest of settlement that merely wants to discourage/slow down casual raiders. A 30x30 claim would lose about a third of it's area to walls (ignoring the notion that one should have two or three tiles claimed outside the outer fence to make wall griefing more difficult).

And I guess I have a problem with the notion that something is working as intended if it is a design flaw in a system that hasn't been fully implemented or even thought out.

[Sevenless]

To be fair, this is a beta. We're here to help them iron out these wrinkles before "release". I highly doubt every system works the first time around.

My one issue with this system is the braziers being damageable. You really do need multiple layers of walls to at least defend those, whether or not they fix the proc issues. I'm hoping jorb has more insights, but as I've mentioned in the past: New walls and new siege mechanics may make 90% of these problems obsolete.

[Deacon]

Is there any chance we can get Jorb to comment here, giving us some of their ideas on how, when, or even if they plan to address this?

Thanks

[Sevenless]

Is there any chance we can get Jorb to comment here, giving us some of their ideas on how, when, or even if they plan to address this?

Thanks

You could try PMing him if you'd like. He's a busy man and tends to answer posts at whim rather than methodically. But he sure does love discussing his pvps.