Salem is pay to win?

[Procne]

If p2w is only when you can totally buy yourself to victory then no game is p2w, and p2w is a moot term. Only few games do f2p right. To give two famous contrasting examples: Dota 2 does it right, League of Legends does it not.

No, it's not only then. It's also when winning is impossible without paying.
Travian was given as an example - if you don't pay for the boosts offered then you will never be the best.

[milonti]

If p2w is only when you can totally buy yourself to victory then no game is p2w, and p2w is a moot term. Only few games do f2p right. To give two famous contrasting examples: Dota 2 does it right, League of Legends does it not.

Err I'm sorry, are you saying League of Legends is pay to win? Or do you mean not doing free to play correctly? Either option seems terribly wrong. Please explain a little more?

[TeckXKnight]

Another example is a game like Travian (haven't gone deep enough into some of the newer MMORTS games like Stronghold Kingdoms or Settlers Online to really get to know them). You can play your ass off in that game without paying a dime. You might even become part of one of the top alliances in the game, maybe even make it into the top 10% of players, but you'll never be able to crack that top spot, let alone "win" the game (by having built one of the ruins) without ponying up some money on a regular basis. (I think in the games history, there have been a few to get up there completely free, but it seemed just out of my reach over the approximately two years I played it.)

A great example of a pay to win mmorts is Dungeon Overlord, essentially Dungeon Keeper the mmo. A free player is able to establish 2 bases early on. A player who shells out $30 has 5 bases -- which will produce twice as many resources each for another $30. For $60 dollars the paid player is more than 5x as effective at production, growth, and combat as the free player. Even if the free player were to band together an alliance of free players, they would always lose against that one paid player. To stand a chance, the free player has to pay.

In Salem, a free player can very easily kill a paid player. In return, that paid player can raise a posse and kill the free player. The cycle continues and the free player never paid to win the fight. Anyone please correct me if I'm mistaken about free players being able to kill paid players.

[MagicManICT]

In Salem, a free player can very easily kill a paid player. In return, that paid player can raise a posse and kill the free player. The cycle continues and the free player never paid to win the fight. Anyone please correct me if I'm mistaken about free players being able to kill paid players.

You're not wrong and is probably the best reason why Salem can't be defined under any form of definition of "pay to win". You can get to the point of being able to murder your neighbor faster if you pony up for some silver, but it's most definitely not going to make you the top player in the game as that honor only comes with hard work. Towns just aren't going to sell their best foods and Inspirationals.

[Sevenless]

In Salem, a free player can very easily kill a paid player. In return, that paid player can raise a posse and kill the free player. The cycle continues and the free player never paid to win the fight. Anyone please correct me if I'm mistaken about free players being able to kill paid players.

You're not wrong and is probably the best reason why Salem can't be defined under any form of definition of "pay to win". You can get to the point of being able to murder your neighbor faster if you pony up for some silver, but it's most definitely not going to make you the top player in the game as that honor only comes with hard work. Towns just aren't going to sell their best foods and Inspirationals.

And buying silver won't make you get your inspirationals/farm purity moving any faster either.

[dakenho]

I know this may not be the right spot for this but

PLEASE stop saying salem is pay to win, there really are no game breaking items or even high tier items in the shop where if you went out and bought silver you could "play to win", secondly there are really no items on web page that absolutely break the game, sure I suppose if the game world was one day old some of the adventure packs might be tempting to get a head start but realistically right now they can no give a new player enough of an advantage that they can break the game. Thirdly, its a freaked beta people, if there is something that unbalanced they will get around to fixing it.

[Glennfinnan]

Well said, but there's a dedicated thread for this in City upon a Hill [iirc].

[TeckXKnight]

Well said, but there's a dedicated thread for this in City upon a Hill [iirc].

Here works just fine too. Sometimes what you have to say can fit in many places. =)