WHERE DA HALLOWEEN AT ? (or other updates)

[Chiprel]

TeckXKnight confirmed master of bringing wall-of-text out of people with just one single sentence.

Kandarim: j/lo never sticks to their development plan. Just be happy that they are working on salem

[loftar]

Why then did you put it aside to remake proficiencies, contrary to your own argument that the gluttony remake is the foundation of any future balances?

Well, it was only once we finally started getting concrete ideas for the gluttony system and started analyzing what implementing them would mean in practice, that we realized that gluttony is more (but not exclusively) a late-game issue, whereas proficiencies is more (but not exclusively) an early-game issue. Therefore, we wanted to do proficiencies first, in order to see how they flowed into gluttony.

I mean, not too long ago proficiencies were actually tweaked a bit (and for a better direction too).

Whether it was long ago or not, the weaknesses that I described are present as it is.

what is the direction you are leaning toward how long it should take to make an advanced character?

Deciding that is not our first concern, because that's primarily a quantitative issue with balancing numbers. The first concern is designing, qualitatively, a system that is fun to play, and in which the numbers can be interpreted. Only once we have done that can we start considering the details of specific numbers and their consequences, such as how to transition from the old system to the new.

[belgear]

Thank you for the information. Something is better than nothing. Working on the inspirational system sounds like a great way to take your mind off the gluttony system, and give time for inspiration to hit

[TeckXKnight]

Thank you for posting your long wall of text.

I'll just say that I'm a bit disappointed that it seems that you once again abandoned the remake of gluttony in favour of another system. It may be that this was your plan all along, but as I have understood earlier posts by you, it seemed to me you wanted to get the gluttony remake out of the way before you turned your attention to any other part of the game. Why then did you put it aside to remake proficiencies, contrary to your own argument that the gluttony remake is the foundation of any future balances?

They didn't abandon the gluttony remake though? They're working on that concurrently, it's just that they're testing proficiencies this time rather than gluttony, as loftar stated at the bottom. =)

Thanks for sharing that loftar. I find it interesting that the crux of those system resembles an ebb and flow as you pool and bleed, though I'm glad that there wouldn't be any draining in future attempts. I won't try to passive aggressively sneak in any comments and my curiosity is sated, so today is a good day.

TeckXKnight confirmed master of bringing wall-of-text out of people with just one single sentence.

<3

[jorb]

Thank you for posting your long wall of text.

I'll just say that I'm a bit disappointed that it seems that you once again abandoned the remake of gluttony in favour of another system. It may be that this was your plan all along, but as I have understood earlier posts by you, it seemed to me you wanted to get the gluttony remake out of the way before you turned your attention to any other part of the game. Why then did you put it aside to remake proficiencies, contrary to your own argument that the gluttony remake is the foundation of any future balances?

We haven't abandoned gluttony. It still sucks and needs to be remade. It was more that, while discussing the system back and forth and playtesting a bit, it dawned on us that the primary problem with the game experience wasn't gluttony. Gluttony comes later in the game. The first problem was the proficiency and skill grind, so we decided to fix that first, as our new analysis of it was extremely damning. After thinking about the incentives a bit we found them to be more or less laughably bad.

Gluttony stinks up the mid- to lategame, and is antecedent in that sense. I think we also feel a bit more sure as to what we intend to do about it.

We'll fix both before you'll see either, but I suspect we'll stick with the proficiency solution we have now. There's still some evaluation to be done, but the fundamentals appear sound, and do not seem to have obvious problems. The game is a lot more relaxed, to say the least.

[Thor]

Well I just managed to "skill up" a new toon in a couple of days and didn't find it very hard.
Though, while I don't mind the current system being "grindy", majority of the new folk probably do, so I understand why you want to give it your magical touch.

[Potjeh]

I for one find gluttony to be a lot more tedious than studying.

[Tonkyhonk]

i certainly welcome easier (or less complex) early-game and harder late-game
its neat to hear about the recent works youve been working on (even if youre throwing them away), thanks, jorb and loftar!

[Kandarim]

We haven't abandoned gluttony. It still sucks and needs to be remade.
...
We'll fix both before you'll see either, but I suspect we'll stick with the proficiency solution we have now. There's still some evaluation to be done, but the fundamentals appear sound, and do not seem to have obvious problems. The game is a lot more relaxed, to say the least.

A genuine question which I try to pose without sounding aggressive: why would you need to fix both until we see either? I daresay the only common ground between the two is the black bile drain while studying - an easy point to balance, I think, even if it takes a few tries to get it right. Given that you divide them yourself into different stages of the game, why should they be so closely linked that you cannot release the one without the other?

On the other hand, I'm happy you're giving consideration to the more finished aspects of the game as well. I have little issues with the current proficiency system when casually studying. I concede that certain bouts of big-time studying (high-level SnC studying, for example) feels immensely grindy. But, to be honest, I never had any real issues with early-game studying. But then my gameplay pace always was slow compared to the more committed players. As to your point that the inspirationals give relatively few proficiency points: I completely disagree. As far as skills go, the proficiency points required are nicely balanced in my mind; of course, grinding out high-end SnC or slotting proficiencies makes you feel a bit bad when a full shed of inspirationals only gives you a handful of increases. But then, those are luxury problems which will always exist when no hard cap is set on the proficiencies (which there shouldn't, for the record )

All in all: I might sound a bit more condemning than I mean to - I'm genuinely pleased to see you aren't afraid to overhaul core mechanics of the game.

[Procne]

Oh, you want to change current inspirational system.

I genuinelly liked it, because:
- I didn't feel like i was wasting points from inspirationals, especially the better ones, because I could level multiple skills at the same time
- I didn't need to pay that much attention to it, especially at higher levels - I would just consume a number of inspirationals in proper number and then just do something else while the points pile up

You say that it's not fun for new players to concentrate on inspirationals and grinding them (although I liked it). I think the problem here would rather be the fact that there are so many skills needed to do anything in the beginning and so many inspirational level-ups needed to reach those. So maybe remove / fuse some skills, reduce their proficiency requirements and make learning take more time?