The Trump / Russia Controversy

[Bleuwulf]

All this mass-debating....

I hope someone brought tissues.....

[TotalyMeow]

So why is creating a Russo-American alliance a bad thing? Isn't it what we need to really keep China in check and heal ex-soviet wounds? Sometimes it seems like the only reason people hate Trump meeting Putin and the Duma members and what not is because they need dirt on him and want to slander. Uniting superpowers isn't a bad thing, especially when they're the two most powerful superpowers on the face of the Earth. Debate me pls.

It's not a bad thing if it's possible. The way Putin has been operating though, it seems likely that he will mostly just do his best to take advantage of any alliance like the way he took advantage of Obama's weak foreign policy to invade Crimea. Plus, if you look at American political history, for decades now Democrats take the opposite stance on Russia that the Republicans do, no matter what. Just a few years ago, when Obama was campaigning, Paul Ryan pointed out that Russia is still an enemy to us and was setting up to do something nasty (like invade another country) and Obama taunted him with "The 80s called and they want their foreign policy back". But generally speaking, Russia has never had the same ideals as the US and it's not likely we can really get along as allies on a permanent basis, not at this time.

[saltmummy]

But generally speaking, Russia has never had the same ideals as the US and it's not likely we can really get along as allies on a permanent basis, not at this time.

We can at least still stand on either side of the fence staring at each other and agree not to come on the others lawn, not to leave trash in the others driveway, and also to not throw rocks at one another as we leave for work in the morning.

[TotalyMeow]

One would think so, but normally neighbors don't extend their fences into other's yards, and HOAs are rarely militarized.

[Claeyt]

Rep. Adam Schiff's opening statement is now part of U.S. History and will be taught in U.S. history classes for generations. I HIGHLY recommend that every American watch all of it to better understand what is happening and why. He's a former federal prosecutor and this is the best statement on the Trump/Russia link that I've heard anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeHywajNjs

What we saw today is only the opening statement to maybe one of the most important acts that the U.S. Congress will ever do in the history of the United States.

Full Hearing:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425087-1/ ... ign-russia

Other massive happenings of the day:

Comey confirmed that there is a classified ongoing investigation of the Trump Campaign, contacts between the Trump Campaign and Russian Intelligence and the Russian Intelligence hacking of the DNC and the Clinton Campaign.

Comey fully denied that ANY "wire tapping" orchestrated by Obama happened thus proving once and for all that Trump is lying about Obama wire tapping Trump Tower for political purposes.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/ ... nsa-rogers

Comey also confirmed once and for all that the DNC and Clinton Campaign hacking WAS orchestrated by Russian Intelligence contrary to what Trump has been saying where he denies that the Russians were responsible for the hacking.

Comey confirmed that they do have information about contacts between the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ri ... 586d8ebade

Rep. Schiff hinted at continuing investigation into the Rosneft deal where Carter Page was bribed by Russian Intelligence so as to get Trump to drop sanctions. This is HUGE if it's being directly added to the congressional record. He also hinted at how Carter was payed. Schiff also directly said that Roger Stone had contact with Russian Intelligence which has yet to be confirmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeHywajNjs

Trump tweeted during the hearing that the FBI and NSA confirmed that the Russians did not influence the election. This was denied live in the hearing by Comey and attacked by Schiff afterwards. Later in the Day Spicer repeated the lie and was attacked by fellow Republicans.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... d-not-inf/

Manafort will be subpoenaed by the Intelligence committee and is now wanted for questioning in Ukraine on possible anti-corruption charges.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/p ... sia-236286

The White House is distancing Trump from his campaign aides Stone and Page who may be charged with crimes.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/11582af2 ... aign-aides

So why is creating a Russo-American alliance a bad thing? Isn't it what we need to really keep China in check and heal ex-soviet wounds? Sometimes it seems like the only reason people hate Trump meeting Putin and the Duma members and what not is because they need dirt on him and want to slander. Uniting superpowers isn't a bad thing, especially when they're the two most powerful superpowers on the face of the Earth. Debate me pls.

There will never be a Russian-American alliance as long as Putin is in power. Russia is not a democracy. It is an Oligarchic-Kleptocracy. Putin has killed reporters and his political opponents. Putin has invaded countries and lied about it including Ukraine and Georgia both of which were protected by treaties which Putin signed and then broke.

Russia is not a superpower and is not all that powerful anymore. If you are Russian, your government is lying to you.

Russia's economy is 12th in the world after Italy, Canada, Brazil and South Korea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... P_(nominal)

Russia's military spending is now one third of China's and less than Saudi Arabia's placing them in 4th place internationally in military spending and not that much higher than the UK, India and France. They are no longer a super power by any measure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... penditures

It is a common myth that Russia is still a super power. This is pushed by RT and the Russian media but it's false. Russia is now mostly a shrinking Petrol-State.

We can at least still stand on either side of the fence staring at each other and agree not to come on the others lawn, not to leave trash in the others driveway, and also to not throw rocks at one another as we leave for work in the morning.

No, we can't agree to that as long as Putin is permanently in power and enriching himself and his friends. Russia is not a democracy anymore. It is an Authoritative Single Party government that kills reporters and kills political opponents.

All the happenings in the United States Government today (Open and public Congressional hearings on the action of Trump and his aides, Televised Congressional hearings and questions put to possible Supreme Court Justices, Press Conferences in front of a Free Press) are all part of our democracy and would never happen in Russia.

Until these things can happen openly and freely in Russia, they will not be part of the free society of nations.

[Dallane]

Captain Estrogen strikes again with fake news and using wikipedia for facts! I don't understand how someone can be so cucked 24/7

[TotalyMeow]

Rep. Adam Schiff's opening statement is now part of U.S. History and will be taught in U.S. history classes for generations. I HIGHLY recommend that every American watch all of it to better understand what is happening and why. He's a former federal prosecutor and this is the best statement on the Trump/Russia link that I've heard anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeHywajNjs

What we saw today is only the opening statement to maybe one of the most important acts that the U.S. Congress will ever do in the history of the United States.

If this is the first time you're realizing that the Russians have been trying and succeeding to influence our politics for decades, you've really had the wool pulled over your eyes. This hearing will be completely forgotten in a few years and won't even merit a footnote in important acts of Congress. I certainly do agree that we need to be aware of Russia's machinations and probably be more careful of them in the future (though I suspect there will always be idiots falling for phishing schemes like Podesta did), but I think the Russian meddling had little to no effect on anyone's opinions of who they voted for and the Russians ultimately failed as they were mainly trying to get dirt on Hillary as they thought (like many did) that she would be the one to become President.

[Claeyt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeHywajNjs

If this is the first time you're realizing that the Russians have been trying and succeeding to influence our politics for decades, you've really had the wool pulled over your eyes.

I agree. This is just the first time they've had such massive help from treasonous Americans willing to work with them.

This hearing will be completely forgotten in a few years and won't even merit a footnote in important acts of Congress.

You're delusional if you think the FBI/CIA/NSA counterintelligence investigation will be over by next March. The House Intelligence Committee is already scheduling subpoenaed testimony and closed hearings through July on the House Calendar. The Congressional Committees will be going through next Christmas AT LEAST, and maybe for years.

There has never been a counter espionage investigation of this size in the history of the United States. 5 Congressional Committees, FBI investigation, NSA investigation, FBI/CIA/NSA cooperative counter intelligence investigation, we've never seen anything like this in our time. This is Watergate. This is Iran-Contra sized congressional hearings and it's just getting started.

I certainly do agree that we need to be aware of Russia's machinations and probably be more careful of them in the future (though I suspect there will always be idiots falling for phishing schemes like Podesta did), but I think the Russian meddling had little to no effect on anyone's opinions of who they voted for and the Russians ultimately failed as they were mainly trying to get dirt on Hillary as they thought (like many did) that she would be the one to become President.

It's now just plain stupid to say "they didn't affect it". Of course leaks of the DNC and Hillary Campaign affected the election. It was months of Russian Hacked emails being released. Only partisan jackasses are now saying it didn't affect the vote totals.

[Bleuwulf]

"You're delusional if you think the FBI/CIA/NSA counterintelligence investigation will be over by next March."

I LOLed so hard at this I almost peed. of course it won't be over,it'll stretch over and possibly beyond the presidential term,just like the ones theyve done on Ole' Bamma,Gee-Dub,and even back to "Slick Willy" they will milk all the funding they can out of it,like always,and all of it will come to nothing but a bunch of media masturbation and clueless shrugging,like always.

[Claeyt]

"You're delusional if you think the FBI/CIA/NSA counterintelligence investigation will be over by next March."

I LOLed so hard at this I almost peed. of course it won't be over,it'll stretch over and possibly beyond the presidential term,just like the ones theyve done on Ole' Bamma,Gee-Dub,and even back to "Slick Willy" they will milk all the funding they can out of it,like always,and all of it will come to nothing but a bunch of media masturbation and clueless shrugging,like always.

No, I don't think it'll be over by next March. I was using that as a minimum of when it might be possibly over. If I had to guess, I'd say that it won't be over for the next 4 years. I personally believe all of this is going to cost the Republicans the House (and maybe the Senate, but that's harder in 2018 due to so many Dem seats up) and at that point the Dem's will open up a well earned Tsunami on Trump. They'll investigate his conflicts of interest with his business. They'll investigate Russia. They'll investigate the 5 ethics complaints that have already been filed by the congressional ethics office. They'll investigate his taxes. They'll investigate everything and THEN it'll be endless. His presidency will be over by the time they go into 2020.