The Trump / Russia Controversy

[cyko]

@Big D
Thank you for your explanation.
I would never have been able to identifiy you as social liberal.

I gave you mine, because i don't know what a "euroclaeyt leftist" is.

Edit: added "@Big D"

[Darwoth]

i am 100% socially liberal, i think people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it does not impede on the freedoms and space of someone else.

want to shoot dope in your arm? go for it, just don't expect me to taxed for your medical bills and do not get in your car so you can crash into someone.

want to be a flaming **** transvestite with 15 ***** growing out of your head? have fun, but do not think you have the right to force a church with opposing religious views to perform a marriage ceremony for you.

want to turn your property into a junkyard? no problem, but i better not have a ruined water table or a rodent infestation because of it.

want to open a mosque and talk about allah all day? sure thing, but do not come around with your sharia law ***** and trying to force your beliefs or rules on others.


the problem with those views is the vast majority of people lack the element required to make it work, which is personal responsibility. the confusion about them is because in this country people like claeyt call themselves liberal when they are not thus libertarians like myself and i believe meow and dallane are always at odds with the "liberals".

[cyko]

So, if i understand you correctly, you have no problems with immigration and you have no racist prejudices (sorry, don't find a way to describe it nicer)?

Sometimes it seemed to me like that and over here, this is the opposition of social liberal.
However, I'll try to read your posts with your self description in mind. Maybe, i've misinterpreted you sometimes.

Edit:
btw, i agree with the whole "personal responsibility" thing

[Dallane]

So, if i understand you correctly, you have no problems with immigration and you have no racist prejudices (sorry, don't find a way to describe it nicer)?

None of us have ever had any issues with immigration especially because of race or religion.

What I do have a problem with is if you are coming here illegally because our welfare system is better than your country or coming here to cause harm to the people of this country.

[Darwoth]

some of the best people i have ever known were south korean immigrants, some others were indeed mexican immigrants. they went to the time and expense to come here legally waiting their turn, learned english, assimilated into american culture and became proud self sustaining americans. i have zero problem with that type of immigrant.

i have a huge problem with free loading leeches that jump the border in the middle of the night to get on a variety of social welfare programs in a sanctuary city, or a flock of people from an area of the world that is inherently hostile to everything that it means to be an american, have no desire to assimilate and want to come here to enjoy this countries prosperity while hating all over it, create enclaves where they can enforce sharia law and in some cases shoot/blow up a bunch of random people for no reason.

[TotalyMeow]

So, if i understand you correctly, you have no problems with immigration and you have no racist prejudices (sorry, don't find a way to describe it nicer)?

None of us have ever had any issues with immigration especially because of race or religion.

What I do have a problem with is if you are coming here illegally because our welfare system is better than your country or coming here to cause harm to the people of this country.

Same here. I have the same Libertarian values that Darwoth just explained to you. I'm all in favor of immigration and I would have no problem with easily obtained work visas for people from Mexico who just want to work and make some money for family back home. And I would agree with such people who have a good record of such work and supporting themselves getting an easy path to immigration for themselves and their families. I do NOT agree with such people crossing the border without permission and I absolutely think it's wrong that they sneak in and then 'anchor' themselves here by having a child, especially when they then proceed to collect welfare instead of working. That's not what America is about, immigration to America was always about coming here to find a job, to work hard and advance by virtue of that hard work, that's what's always been called "The American Dream".

[saltmummy]

i think people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it does not impede on the freedoms and space of someone else.

I can get behind that. Wish more people were into this sort of thinking. Would be a much friendlier and peaceful existence, what with people just leaving each other alone. Unlike Claeyts vision of America, which has us all living in fear of our new communist and/or terrorist overlords.

And yet people like claeyt or any of these rioting millennial's will look at you like some kind of monster for even suggesting we uphold the law. Immigration is great, it's a fresh face in the mass of Americas working class and potential success stories. I love the fact that people can come here from a ****** situation in a ****** place and make it big through the virtues of hard work and effort. What I don't like is this lazy "go to america and get your hand outs!" ****. It's the country of second chances for those that want to put a little effort into doing something with their lives. They can't do that though with people like Claeyt propping them up and patronizing them with handouts. It's a somewhat subtle form of oppression, you take people who are different, tell them they are where they are because they are different, and then give them handouts and special treatment to make them think you actually give a **** while the other side tells them that they can do what they want with hard work and effort. "no, no hard work. You'll never succeed by putting effort into your lives immigrants. Just take our handouts and complain about the people over there working hard and making something of their lives. Good little immigrants and minorities, we can't take control if you work hard and learn what america is really about."

[cyko]

I thank you (libertarian salemites) for those insights. I really appreciate that.
Although i may not agree with everything and although i can not seriously think of you as representative for the whole population of the USA, i feel better with the thought, that you will watch the president of your choice with vigilance.

i think people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it does not impede on the freedoms and space of someone else.

Fun fact is, that this is one of the basic thoughts of modern communism (not to be mismatched with historical socialism). And maybe of every promiseful future society.
It's all about freedom and responsibility. Well, and of course about property and economics, but let's hold for this time on the things, we have in common.
Gives me better sleep.

Good night.

[Claeyt]

A new and interesting article from Forbes about Christopher Steele, the author of the Trump Russian Dossier and other ex-MI6 private intelligence contractors talking about why it's disturbing that Chris Steele felt the need to utterly disappear within England and it's meaning for the dossier.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan ... ce942d61e6

[Darwoth]