Why Salem will fail without intervention

[JeffGV]

Sure, say that to all the people that stopped playing after being raided.

Can and do. This is a high risk, violent permadeath world. I'm sorry that you didn't know what you were signing up for when you started the game but if losing everything is going to kill Salem for you, then it's the wrong game for you. Starting, losing everything, and coming back stronger and wiser should be part of your experience.

There is a difference between raids ruining the game for you and mechanics standing in the way of new players ever getting stronger. As it stands you can survive, thrive, and take risks to success so it is impossible to support your points.

Actually, i'm still playing, i wasn't talking about me (albeit all the people i started playing with have all quitted). But as you can see we have over 20k registered players and not even 300 playing. The retention rate is abysmal. The shop is based mostly on aesthetical items at absurd prices that can be lost quite easily. There are a lot of beta keys over the internet and still we are quite pretty low in population.
I wouldn't say things are going fine.

[MagicManICT]

I think the only reason EVE sees the success it has today is because of the development of highsec space over the last 10 years. I believe that, when it first came out, highsec space was just the jump-off point, and to do anything worth your time, you had to go out into nullsec. If I recall right, they only had about 10k subs the first six months to a year and slowly started growing as the game developed farther.

[TeckXKnight]

That wasn't directed at you saying you were quitting, it was a broader statement directed at the reader. Your argument is wholly 'the user base is small therefore pvp is bad.' You're missing some logical steps there. Drawing from the evidence that the player base is small we can determine that the player base is small; only that and nothing more. We can speculate that it's because of lack of content, raiding, permadeath, etc.. This does not actually mean anything though because it has no substantial evidence to back it up.

As for things going fine or not, it's a closed beta game for a niche community that is still heavily under development (both the community and the game.) Things are going to be small and stay small until the game grows. I think declaring the end of times for that reason to be silly. Ballooning up prematurely, as has been done in the past, is only going to draw in players who see an unfinished game and leave disappointedly.

[Mereni]

The thread title says 'without intervention' but it's beta. The devs are constantly intervening with new stuff.

I think it's good that the player base is small and I think it should Stay small for some time to come. The game is a beta and it doesn't need a huge community playing it, just enough people to test/proofread/suggest stuff.

Everyone knows the raiding is messed up. First the raiders were overpowered, and now the defenders are. It needs work and it's getting it. There's also a lot of content that needs to be added, graphics that need upgrading, bugs that need fixing, etc etc. Saying the game will fail when it hasn't even gotten started is just silly.

[CEO_JMorrigan]

The game is retaining new players at a much better pace now due to the changes in the early game. Jorb/Loftar just need to keep on moving along with updates like they are now, and we will be in a good place soon.

[dageir]

I can understand that new people that do not understand the concept of perma-death get scared away. The game isnt for them. A bigger safe zone than it is today where you actually can build stuff on like verywhere else might be a bad idea. If this area isnt very big it will get cluttered with structures in no time. The ones being strong gets even stronger since they have time to develop those areas and maybe harass other players so they leave. An alternative is that you cant build stuff or claim things in the safe zone as it is today, and only have a bigger area. Since most people dont want to be a gatherer and live under a tree for most of the time this alternative isnt great or long term either. If the more established players meet new ones with open arms and dont grief them in game nor in forums we might get a bigger retention than we have now. In forums this should be possible at least. And also encourage new players to read the forums.

[MagicManICT]

If it's not overwhelmed with abandoned newbie junk, it'll get overloaded by griefers with little better to do with their time other than "they can."

[greenkrieg]

The main problem I see with Salem is complexity. It takes way too long to get to any of the good stuff in this game. Foraging is a bad way to introduce someone into Salem since the real fun is in the crafting/farming/pvp. For me to be able to even know what to do and how to get to any of that I had to go on the forums do a lot of reading and watch some youtube videos. That is not how you hook someone into a time intensive MMO. The game needs to seem fun and exciting within the first 30mins or people aren't going to want to play.

I would suggest giving starting players all the skills required to build a house, claim and small farm from the beginning. Put a tutorial section into the game where the wilderness guide drops you off on a level plot of forest. Have him give you little tasks like building a fence around you land, building a house, tilling a plot and planting some crops. Then have resources available in game if you don't know what to do. I know there is the help menu but having an npc to talk with to explain different aspects would help a lot.

A little hand holding at the start of the game will go a long way to make people want to put in the effort to get better.

[TeckXKnight]

Oh god, please no. Never anything that bad. Tutorials that treat you like you're mentally deficient are my bane.

[Mereni]

I would suggest giving starting players all the skills required to build a house, claim and small farm from the beginning. Put a tutorial section into the game where the wilderness guide drops you off on a level plot of forest. Have him give you little tasks like building a fence around you land, building a house, tilling a plot and planting some crops. Then have resources available in game if you don't know what to do. I know there is the help menu but having an npc to talk with to explain different aspects would help a lot.

A little hand holding at the start of the game will go a long way to make people want to put in the effort to get better.

I disagree. I enjoyed the early foraging life. If foraging isn't something you find interesting, you're probably not going to like the game. And while it would have been good to have a hint that clicking the bar would level up my proficiency, I did figure it out pretty quick. I don't think we need more of a tutorial than an explanation of basic game mechanics, plus a few NPCs around town that give text explaining things like farming, defense, etc. Sevenless' guide is so good, their scripts could even be based off that.