Thoughts on the combat system

[MayflowerBlues]

I am really loving the crafting/building systems in Salem so far, the way various systems (e.g. farming, carpentry, metalworking/mining, hunting) have their own complexities and nuances. By contrast, I am really not getting the combat system at this point. There can be lots of different combat systems in video games, and I've enjoyed different ones over the years, as long as they were done well. I guess the basic premise of a good combat system is that it's challenging in some enjoyable way, and if dealing with multi-player, also balanced. The challenge can be reflex/coordination based, as with shooters, where you have to manually aim as quickly as possible, or as with my personal favorite, the melee combat in the first 2 Gothic RPGs, where you had to split-second time your sword blocks to parry the enemy, and then counter-attack afterwards. Another kind of challenge is strategy/tactics, where you typically have lots of different abilities at your disposal, as do your enemies, and you have to use them in an intelligent way designed to counter your opponent and dominate them. This can be done at a very deliberate pace, as with turn based combat systems in single-player RPGs, or at a fast pace, as with MMORPGs such as World of Warcraft. Once again, I've played games with these systems done well and enjoyed them. These two types of challenges (reflex and strategy) are by far the most common in video game combat systems, but hypothetically, you can have combat challenging in other ways, puzzle solving or whatever, anything someone can think of.

Now with Salem's combat as it is right now at its core, I just don't see how it can ever be challenging and balanced in a fun way for the players. The combat system seems to be a weird combination of action based (reflexes/coordination) and strategic gameplay that doesn't really work well in either direction. The player has to do manual aiming and timing with attacks/moves (action-based) but the long visual delay on everything allows the enemy to easily avoid/dodge/parry any attack or move. Likewise, there are various combat abilities available, but most of them can be nullified due to the necessity of having to manually land them combined with the aforementioned delay.

Maybe I am just not seeing it, but it seems to me that it would be a much better idea for the devs to either go full action or full strategy/tactics, and design a better fitting system around one of those approaches, rather than try to combine them in this way. Since Salem is an RPG, and we have to deal with internet latency, I am guessing full on-action combat probably won't be too popular, but then they can make a deep tactical combat system with a lock-on system of some kind so you don't have to worry about manually aiming in camera angles that aren't perfect for that or the enemy dodging, but also with a lot of abilities with various effect, which the player would have to dynamically juggle in order to achieve the best outcome. It could be abstractly based on real world fighting, where typically combatants engage and perform their moves, and then look for weaknesses or adapt to changing circumstances by using the tools at their disposal. The winner would be the person who either has more tools at their disposal (due to higher progression in skill tree), or just uses the tools available to them more effectively at that time, in case of an even fight. From what I understand, this wouldn't be that different from the combat system in Haven & Hearth. What do you guys think?

[Dallane]

combat isn't finished yet so we got the ****** system till then.

[Droj]

stab n run, chasing tails.

its almost like sword swings in War of Roses.

[staxjax]

Haven and Hearth.

[MayflowerBlues]

Haven and Hearth.

Oops, funny mistake. Corrected.

combat isn't finished yet so we got the ****** system till then.

Yeah, I get that, my problem isn't with shortage of skills right now, it's more with the underlying system. If they add a bunch more skills in the future, but following the same pattern of manual aiming with a delay, the results will still be lackluster. I would love to hear the devs' logic and final goals for the combat, especially since it seems most people think the system in Haven & Hearth was better.

[Dallane]

Haven and Hearth.

Oops, funny mistake. Corrected.

combat isn't finished yet so we got the ****** system till then.

Yeah, I get that, my problem isn't with shortage of skills right now, it's more with the underlying system. If they add a bunch more skills in the future, but following the same pattern of manual aiming with a delay, the results will still be lackluster. I would love to hear the devs' logic and final goals for the combat, especially since it seems most people think the system in Haven & Hearth was better.

Actually haven combat is superior in every way to salem. Just because you couldn't figure it out or didn't take the time to ask someone doesn't mean it was bad.

[colesie]

M_O_V_E_M_E_N_T_K_A_M_B_E_R_T

[Vigilance]

MERNVMENT KMAEBRTZ!!!

[MayflowerBlues]

Actually haven combat is superior in every way to salem. Just because you couldn't figure it out or didn't take the time to ask someone doesn't mean it was bad.

Huh? You lost me. When did I say the combat in Haven & Hearth was bad?

[Mereni]

Actually haven combat is superior in every way to salem. Just because you couldn't figure it out or didn't take the time to ask someone doesn't mean it was bad.

Huh? You lost me. When did I say the combat in Haven & Hearth was bad?

He says that automatically any time it comes up. Possibly because so many people say it is bad.